Cross-flow/OHC head for str8

**39CENT** · 01-16-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Carmichael

All of this is so very interesting to me even if I never do any of the work involved with making a straight eight go faster.

I wonder where this engine would be now if Buick had continued to develop it.

I think that if they put just a better intake system on the 263 as has been said here in team buick that it would have been a really powerful engine platfom. However the future designers didnt have room for that big [in size] of engine.Also If it had also gone undersquare [bigger bore shorter stroke] and room for upsizing the cubes. It would have been outstanding. The main thing about the straight 8 is its a 'straight' cylinder arrangement. And they have a different type of power output than the V style engines. The V styles are more hi rpm horsepower engines and the 'straight' are more torq and lower rpm engines.

**bob k. mando** · 01-24-2009, 04:02 PM

Doozy OT:
weird, i've seen several references now to Lycoming/Duesenberg. is this truly the origin of the Lycoming aircraft engine company?

**duesy** · 01-24-2009, 04:21 PM

Duesenberg Model J engine manufacturing was outsourced to Lycoming. Prior models were fully produced in house.

**Janderson** · 01-25-2009, 10:32 PM

Update

The 4 cyl. head I was so hopeful would work on the 263 is a no-go. The 263 bore spacing is too small. I then tried the larger bore spacing 320 head gasket on it and it was too large of a bore spacing

Still looking

**Buick Guy** · 01-26-2009, 06:28 AM

Don't give up.

**bob k. mando** · 01-26-2009, 03:15 PM

The 263 bore spacing is too small. I then tried the larger bore spacing320 head gasket on it and it was too large of a bore spacing

please post the bore spacings that you're coming up with for these engines.

**duesy** · 01-26-2009, 05:34 PM

Present acceptable bore spacing, it's a long way from a compatible head: Water jackets, studs, oil pass-thrus, mating surfaces, valve train, and so on. What are the chances?

Might be worth creating a preliminary design and cost estimate to determine feasibility for building a dozen or so SOHC x-flow heads.

Now could be a great time given the slow machine tool biz. An eager shop may be willing to absorb the initial development hours in anticipation of getting the manufacturing?

**bob k. mando** · 03-09-2009, 09:42 PM

duesy
i found where you already posted the Model A bore spacings. elsewhere, i've seen references to 183ci for the Model A and 420ci for the Model J.

are these correct?

do you have the bore x stroke dimensions for either of these engines?

edit:
actually, i just found 3.75" x 4.74" for the J. are these correct? i'm getting a displacement of 418.81ci using those numbers.

also found this book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=MDM...sult#PPA183,M1

do you know anything about it?

**duesy** · 03-10-2009, 07:39 AM

Duesenberg built only a handful of competition engines in the twenties including 91, 122, and 183 ci and some employed centrifugal superchargers. I know of two existing SOHC 183 and DOHC 122 engines. There were three principle passenger car engines: Model A 260 ci straight eight SOHC, Model X similar to Model A but lacking cross flow head; Model J 420 ci DOHC bore 3.75 x stroke 4.75 ins.

**alleycat** · 03-14-2009, 03:23 PM

I have pretty much stayed out of this "what if" discussion about cross-flow heads for the str8 mainly because of it's near engeneering impossiability. However, I just saw something yesterday that has caused me to rethink it's possiability. I was out to my welder buddy's shop and on the floor were 2, 4 cylinder heads, DOHC, crossflow, aluminum, hemi type, obviously out of the 50's or early 60's. He thinks they are Italian, looks like Alfa to me. I did a quick tape measure check, about 3.75 C to C, even has the same goofy "paired" cylinder arrangment like Buick. It sits on a narrow block with about 4x4 bolt spacing. I did a quick head gasket measurement check when I got home and it's very close! This is a very robust head, not fancy at all. No fancy ribbing, light weight casting tricks, all the stuff you'd see in a head made in the last 20 odd years or so. It's just a plane-jane simple heavy-duty sand cast head. And the ports will KNOCK YOU OUT!!! This head could be welded on with almost wild abandon and not worry about hopeless warping, and still have plenty of meat left to "straighten things out". This baby looks "do-able". If anybody out there reading this has any Alfa pals, you might want to go visit them and **** a head off the engine over a beer or two! I think I'll go out Monday with a head gasket and a dial caliper and do a little more in depth check, hopefully they will be around for a day or two. alleycat