Car won't start when hot...

**chub chub** · 01-06-2006, 09:27 PM

So I'm still having starting problems with the 52. I think somewhere there is a major drain on the battery so I have been disconecting it when I park. When I drive to work and let it sit all day, it will start right up after work. A couple nights ago I drove from work to the parts store. When I got back in, it was dead. I had someone try to jump me and it was still dead, it doesn't even click at the relay the way it does with a low battery. After I wait a while, I will get that click when I try to start it, but nothing more. Then if I wait longer it will start up. Sometimes if I try to start it too many times before it is "ready" it will drain the battery and I have to jump start it. This happened to me again tonight when I stopped to get gas. I should mention that it still has the starter that is activated by the gas peddal. I thought I read someting about "hot start" problems with the original starter system, but I couldn't find the thread. Does anyone have any idea what is going on with my whole starting system? I have new larger battery cables on it, two grounds (one to the motor, one to the frame), new starter solenoid, and the starter was just rebuilt, all of this in the last two weeks. I really need to get this taken care of before I move next week or the auto transporter will charge me $200 more to load and unload the car. I welcome any and all responses.
Thank you,
scott

**heidigirl** · 01-06-2006, 10:53 PM

i had the very same problem. mounting a remote solenoid kit from madd electronics solved my starting problems, but the remote is not totally necessary. i'm not certain, but i think you may have a weak solenoid or spring in the starter. you can prove this to yourself.

drive around awhile as you normally do but don't stop until you get back home. turn the engine off and let it heat soak for a few minutes. does it start? if yes, repeat the driving sequence. no? drag out the garden hose and wash down the solenoid. eventually you should hear a rather loud snap. at this point your engine should restart.

**chub chub** · 01-06-2006, 11:19 PM

Thanks Heidigirl,
If I do hear that "snap", what exactly would be making that noise? As I said, my starter was just rebuilt last week and the new solenoid was installed the same day but I am aware that it could have been rebuilt poorly or the new solenoid could still be bad. I hope I don't have to fix the same thing twice. I also forgot to mention that I replaced the battery about a month ago but don't entirely trust that either. I'll attach a diagram of the starter/solenoid for anyone who may be unfamiliar with the set up.
Thanks again Heidigirl
scott

**chub chub** · 01-06-2006, 11:25 PM

I forgot to mention I will be out of town this weekend trying to find a place to live in Portland OR. If I can't get online I will respond when I get back on wedensday. Please pile on the suggestions, and thanks to everyone who has been helping me with all these electrical problems.
scott

**Robert Bates** · 01-07-2006, 06:36 AM

Did you rebuild yourself or was it done professionally?

Do you trust the rebuilders?

Sometimes the best rebuilders make a mistake.

Was it doing this before the rebuild, and if so was this the reason for the rebuild?

Did the rebuilder use new parts?

Bob

**heidigirl** · 01-07-2006, 08:44 AM

it appears you have an open circuit caused by engine heat soaking the solenoid. i could be dead wrong here, but i believe the winding in the solenoid is throwing off enough heat into the plunger shaft bearing that it is expanding enough to seize the plunger. when you force cool the solenoid, the sudden release of the plunger allows the return spring to slam the shift lever into the back of the armature in the starter motor, causing the snapping sound. thats what i THINK is going on.

here's an easy test for an open circuit:
place a test light between the ground post of your battery and the battery lead. if the light is on, you have an open circuit. remove ONE fuse at a time and retest. once the light goes out, you will have found the open circuit.

**rcull** · 01-07-2006, 09:13 AM

Because your problem is being elusive, maybe the farther fetched problem sources have to be looked at.

Being as you have a new battery and a rebuilt starter assembly, if you assume both to be good, you might like to check for poor electrical circuit connections. Your battery terminal + side goes directly to the starter. It is probably not the problem, but you can still check that connections on both ends of the cable are clean, this means the starter side too.

The - side goes to an engine mount. From here it finds its way to the starter. There is a couple of places the ground may have developed increased resistance due to corrosion being compounded with heat. You might first drop the starter and make sure that there is good ground between the housing and the block. Paint and crude can interfere. You might like to put a star washer on one of the bolts, and make sure the bolt and threads in the block are clean. You should also give the same kind of attention to the ground where it finds its way to the block.

If you use battery terminals that clamp to your cables, careful attention should be given to the contacting surfaces.

You might test the possibility of these being a problem by jumping past all connections with a set of jumper cables.

**Great Balls of Fire** · 01-07-2006, 04:46 PM

Chub Chub,

A little late maybe but if you want any Portland advice let me know...

**chub chub** · 01-16-2006, 11:08 PM

Hello and thanks to everyone who has responded. I have been overwhelmed with moving, car transport nightmares and more. Here is what I have discovered in the little time I have had to work on the car. I now don't think the starting problem is heat related. I started it after sitting a few days and it died 2 seconds later. I think it used what little fuel was in the filter and ran out before any more could get to the carb. When I tried to restart, it was dead again, not even the click at the solenoid it makes when the battery is almost dead. I started working the solenoid back and forth by hand until I heard the "snap" that heidigirl was talking about. After this it started right up. The new solenoid was put on by the guy who rebuilt the starter. The shop manual tells how to adjust it after installing it, but I haven't had time to do this yet. I also think the drain on my battery may have been occuring when it was stuck, but I don't know for sure since it hasn't stuck again (even when hot) since I worked it free by hand. So I think a simple adjustment should fix the problem. Now my problem is with my generator. My battery doesn't charge at all and the dash guage never reads charging. I have checked some wires and cleaned some connections but haven't had time to really get into it. I am driving to Portland tomorrow morning (tuesday) and won't have the Buick until I can get it shipped up there along with my other cars (the transporter I arranged to have pick them up last week never showed up). I also won't have a computer or internet for a bit so I will update you all when I can. Thanks for the offer Great ***** of Fire, I'll probably have some questions for you later. Thanks again, everyone, for all the help and I hope to be back real soon.

scott

Jason Scott · 01-18-2006, 05:11 PM

I had the same problem with my 53 even after the motor was rebuilt. I went through everything you have. Rebuilt starter, new battery, etc. Then the rebuilt starter, only 6 months old went out again! Rebuilder would not warranty because he claimed I let my battery go down! So now, I got a new starter, new ground cable, new battery, complete carburetor rebuild. Now it works well and starts hot or cold. It actually turns over faster.
If I was you, and felt confident in the rebuilt starter, battery, and cables just replaced- I would look at your choke setting and overall carburetor condition. If the choke is not set just right, it may be at least partially the culprit