Nailhead Lifter Noise

**My55buick** · 03-13-2011, 08:48 PM

I learned a long time ago that if an engine is heavily sludged it will never come clean with a mechanic in a can. You have to do basically everything Conroy did. However instead of Keroseen I would buy 2 gallons of Berryman Chem dip, I recently did a re-ring on a jeep engine for a friend, and I literally soaked every part of the engine excluding the crank, head, valve cover, oil pan, and block then just scrubbed everything down with a tooth brush and rinsed it with water. There was barely any scrubbing they looked almost clean when I pulled them out. It worked amazing when you looked at the pistons you'd swear they were new, just make sure you spray them with WD 40 or some kind of oil so they don't flash rust.

But if you pull the valve cover and its only a little sludgy not terrible, put fresh oil in it, then put the big bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil in it. Then drive the car about 100 miles, then change the oil and filter. If you do that a few times and notice the oil is coming out fairly clean and no chunks, or bits come out, increase it to 5-800 miles. After about 10 changes when I drive the car the oil stays clean for a while, like it would in a car that was actually maintained.

A while back my dads car died and he didn't have to much cash so we bought a 93 Cavalier that had 120k on it,and ran great. My dad put another 20k on it, never changed the oil, and drove in NYC 2.5 hours of traffic a day. One day it was tapping its *** off. I pulled the valve cover and saw about an 1/8 of an inch of sludge in it. I put in Marvel and Pennzoil and dove the car to get coffee about 5 miles away and already it was significantly quieter. He drives about 40 Miles a day and after a week of driving, the car was quiet. I changed the oil saw sludge come out, and did it about 4 or 5 more times. After that it seemed to stay clean for a while and when i drained the oil I didnt see anymore crap coming out so I left it alone. But before I do an oil change I make him drive a week with the Marvel in the engine, and then I change the oil at the end of the week. The trans went at 150k I pulled the pan to check the bearings and it was squeaky clean inside and the bearings were still good, the car now has about 165k on it and going strong so it does work sometimes.

**DocModisett** · 03-14-2011, 04:37 AM

Take some marvel mystery oil and some atf and put them into a clear glass container , side by side, and take a good hard look at them.....

**My55buick** · 03-14-2011, 07:26 AM

I'm not knocking ATF, the idea is right and ATF does have a ton of detergent in it, but I have tried it a bunch of times and its never worked for me. Ive actually poured it into a car while running, and heard the Marvel actually free up a stuck lifter while idling in front of me at the shop. I think Marvel is just Kerosene with a few additives, wouldn't be surprised if it had similar ingredients to ATF. It definitely smells more like Kerosene then ATF though.

**DocModisett** · 04-10-2011, 04:26 AM

Yep,,,, I usually get the same results out of atf..... people dont want to believe it because it is so simple and cheap to do.... also if that dont work,,, just gently tap on the offending rocker arm with a small hammer while the engine is running .... that will do it too..... if it dont , just as well pull the lifter and replace it.....

**Renshai** · 10-02-2011, 04:36 AM

This was BY FAR the best thread I have read. Anywhere. On Anything.

I have a similar, but not similar problem on a 66 425. There is oil on the spark plugs. Multiple. I consulted the "oracles" and sources, and all say Valve Guide Seals.

Can someone please do a DETAILED write up (preferably with pics...pretty please

) on how to actually DO the valve seals/guides etc? I read a lot, and it sure does sound easy, but pics make it for me... Visual learner I guess!

OR if you have another idea as to what would cause there to be a bunch (!) of oil on the spark plugs when removed, I would appreciate the same advice and help from you guys as you gave Conroy. I will be as forthcoming with the info and in fact, this has led me to start tearing into the top of the heads on my baby

( SCARED TO DEATH of messing with heads... but you guys are awesome and really helped already. Printed the relevant pages and am sorting it out...)

Thanks guys!

Dave

**DocModisett** · 10-02-2011, 05:28 AM

Dave,,,if another fella can do the job,,, so can you,,,, remember knowledge is power.... and some knowledge has to be gained by actually doing the project... do all you can , then what you dont have the wherewithall to do farm it out or get someone who does know to advise you...
heads are not that complex,,, but can be made complex if you are blueprinting a all out racing engine... but on a street driven car, just the basics is fine...and if you can operate a door knob you can do a valve job....

**Renshai** · 10-02-2011, 05:49 AM

Thanks Doc!!!

What is the oil on the spark plugs?

425 w/ less than 60K on her (but wasn't driven AT ALL for like 10 years), and was a Colorado car, now in CA...

Fixin stuff little by little, but can't get an answer on that one... AND if it IS valve guides/seals, how is that done, exactly..

Thanks again Doc!!! (Am over on V8buick now lookin for answers too...GRRRRR)

**DocModisett** · 10-02-2011, 06:12 AM

First,,, before you do anything,,, run a good compression test.... make a diagram of the engine cylinders and write the numbers down in the order they occur.... the results will tell you a lot about the condition of the engine and if it can be made to run right....
The compression testers are sold or rented at the parts stores for $35 or less.... and will save you a bunch of money and trouble.....because you will know the actual conditions you are dealing with ,, not just guessing....

**My55buick** · 10-06-2011, 08:38 PM

I've heard my 264 didn't use valve seals, does the 425 use them? If it does shouldn't he be able to pull the valve covers and use a flash light to see inside the springs and see if his valve seals are still there. I've only done them on a 500 caddy, Mg B, and a 455 olds, but all 3 were visible that way. On the caddy I only had shiney valve stems no sign of the seals at all cuz they were so shot. Atleast that way he could see what he's got with out buying anything. If they were still there then id try a compression and leak down test to see what's wrong.

**DocModisett** · 10-07-2011, 03:27 AM

Well, the intake valve is the one that really needs a seal.... buick ran the exhaust valve 'wet' because it runs hotter than the intake and has no suction on it... the intake valve seal that was used from the factory is just a little neoprene 0 ring seal.... personally,,, I use a umbrella type on the intake side only....that I usually swipe from a Ford engine,,, the critical thing is the valve stem to valve guide clearance... that will cause oil consumption, if it is excessive, more than anything....The oil cools as well as lubes the valve stem... and to get to it , the oil has to go around the valve retainer and lock , then get past the springs, and onto the valve stem.... basicly, by accident... because there is no provision for ''squirting'' the oil onto the valve stems... you want oil , but not too much oil,,, for the conditions,, I would say Buick has done a good design job....Back in the early 60's , when Perfect Circle first came out with their valve seals , all of a sudden , every car that came into the shop for oil consumption, just had to have them installed... when in truth , if a engine has worn out valve guides, they need to be replaced... not just a set of seals installed.....