Starter problem

[Samiam]

I recently acquired a 1963 Buick Riviera.but I'm having a real problem trying to turn the engine over. Since the starter only engages maybe one out of 12 turns. I pulled the starter out and had it tested at a local auto parts store. They said it's good and so I put it back in ,but to no avail I have the same problem. The starter has a custom-made shim which is approximately a quarter of an inch thick,probably to accommodate for the long nose piece. But after checking it appears to be the original starter. So I'm wondering if the problem might be with the transmission/flexplate since the shifter console has been re-taped for a three speed auto. I checked the flexplate it has very minimal wear on the teeth with no reason to be the problem. Anyone out there with any ideas, thanks.

[bob k. mando]

the teeth on the Bendix gear all look good and show no abnormal wear?


you've probably got a 401 but a 425 is possible in 63.

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/66_chassis/

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/60_chassis/

[Bob]

By engage, not engage, are you describing starter runs, but spin freely, or starter chatters on the teeth trying to grab hold? Did the car have the problem when you purchased it or has it developed since?

The spacer sounds a bit much for an original equipment installation.

[65specialconvert]

Sounds like collapsed springs in the drive.You can't test for that unless it's under load or you know what to look for.
The early 401-425 uses the same starter,long nose cone with NO spacer.
Post a picture if you can.
I can get the drive or rebuild the starter for you if you can't get anything local.

[telriv]

Reason for the spacer is that the original "DynaFlow" starter was used when converted to theTH400 trans. Should have a TH400 flexlate bolted to the crank. Hopefully an adapter was used to mate the 400 flexplate to the DynaFlow crank as the hub for the converter is MUCH smaller for a 400.
If you can't get any satisfaction I sell BRAND NEW "Mini-Starters" for the "Nails" for about 14 yrs. now.


Tom T.

[Samiam]

the teeth on the Bendix gear all look good and show no abnormal wear?


you've probably got a 401 but a 425 is possible in 63.

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/66_chassis/

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/60_chassis/

Yes I did match the numbers up and it is a 401 . And yes the teeth on the bendix gear look normal. This starter is a real pain to put in. A 1/4 of a turn with open end wrench only while lining up starter and shims and holding starter all at once can force a few choice words of you ��

[Samiam]

By engage, not engage, are you describing starter runs, but spin freely, or starter chatters on the teeth trying to grab hold? Did the car have the problem when you purchased it or has it developed since?

The spacer sounds a bit much for an original equipment installation.

It sounds like it's spinning freely but I can definitely hear the solenoid clicking when I turn the key off. But when it finally engages it usually turns the engine over,in which I hold the key over until it starts. It doesn't sound to be grinding on the flexplate teeth but I can't be sure. This problem existed since the first time I tried to start it after purchasing the vehicle. And I can't say if it's the original starter or not.
Thanks for your interest and help.
sam

[Samiam]

Reason for the spacer is that the original "DynaFlow" starter was used when converted to theTH400 trans. Should have a TH400 flexlate bolted to the crank. Hopefully an adapter was used to mate the 400 flexplate to the DynaFlow crank as the hub for the converter is MUCH smaller for a 400.
If you can't get any satisfaction I sell BRAND NEW "Mini-Starters" for the "Nails" for about 14 yrs. now.


Tom T.

Do you know, is there any way of identifying which flew plate I have, apart for pulling the tranny out? I don't want to get a new starter if the problem is with a wrong flexplate. Thanks for your knowledgeable advice.
samiam

[buickrodder]

If it works sometimes it sounds like the starter drive clutch is bad, sometimes wrongly called a Bendix, Bendix drives were used on older ford's and other makes but not GM cars, they had a worm shaft and a big spring that would break. Anyway the Buick starter drive has rollers that allow the starter to spin the engine, once the engine starts the rollers in the drive let the gear spin without spinning up the armature and saving the starter from damage. With the starter out that gear will turn one direction easy by hand, the other direction should turn the whole armature, if the gear has a loose feeling to it it is bad. Worn drive clutches can cause intermittent problems where the starter spins but sounds like it is not engaging sometimes. The foot starter switch that Buick used was not only hard on the starter drives but engines too by revving up a cold engine! .. A new drive is 20-30.00 bucks. I do make starter spacers so when installing a ST400 or my 4L60-E kit on a 57-63 you can use the original starter. These were never a factory item but many aluminum flywheel makers included a starter spacer.

[Tom Barnes]

Hi. Several years ago I put a 364 up to a ST400. I had to make some changes to both the flex plate and the starter, using parts from both combinations. It sounds like you haven't heard the engine run yet, is that right? Also, you said the council is taped over for a three speed trans.

Additionally, the 1963 (Dynaflow) flexplate dosen't have teeth, the teeth are on the converter. If you have teeth on a flex plate, it sounds to me like someone put a ST400 (1964) in it.

In my case, I took a ST400 flex plate and cut a bigger hole in the center. That way it fit the crank. For the starter, I seem to remember I used some parts from the dynaflow starter, and some parts from the ST400 starter. I don't remember there being a spacer in either case. I know for a fact that the ST400 will fit a 364 or early 401 with a few mod's.

One thing to watch out for, the ST400 flex plate will fit on in six different ways. There's no pin to register it. If not in the correct position you will have quite a vibration. If it wasn't marked when it was taken off, look closely at the back of the crank to see if there's any indication of where it was. If after fixing your problem, and it vibrates, come back on line and I will tell you how we used to fix them
Good luck, Tom.