New Fuel - Problems for Rebuilt Fuel Pumps?

[Robert Bates]

Ok........has anyone run into any problems yet, or are you planning on, problems with your fuel system due to this new fuel, with the ethanol in it, as the newspapers are predicting for older cars?

Our local newspaper ran a story today http://www.nantucketindependent.com/ describing how this new fuel does damage to older rubbber fuel lines and also to fiberglass (some boat gas tanks). Now I am concerned due to the fact that last year I had the fuel pump in my 55 Special rebuilt due to it only leaking when it ran, but now I am concerned that the new rubbers may not stand up to the new fuel.

What are we to do if the fuel pumps do not stand up to the fuel, convert to electric fuel pumps?

The thought is atrocious to me, but is this what else are we supposed to do?

Any ideas or am I the only one concerned?

Bob Bates

[fueler191]

Is the fuel E-85 that you are refering to? i couldnt read the full article because im not a subscriber to that paper, but i dont think, if it was about the E-85 that they will be able to just jump right too it, they will be forced to slowly faze it out. Not every new car can support this kind of gas, so i think were safe for a while....i hope...

-jeff-

[Robert Bates]

Yes it is the E85 and It is here now!!!

There is no phase in, they have gone and done it

Bob Bates

[rcull]

Remember unleaded gas and your valve seats. There was some truth to it all, but a lot of us are still running "soft" seats on old heads. That doesn't mean it good for them, but the old girls are still running fine. It takes more than a few miles to hammer them out.

It could be different with this, but remember when they first started using R-134 instead of R-12 they said you had to replace your compressor and all fittings in the system because the 134 would leak. Now you just change the oil and the refridgerant, reasonable.

It's worth watching these things, but I don't know if you should worry too much until its been here a while.

[tbone]

More than likely your gas pump leak is do to the rebuild. This is common and I was told, given a choice buy NOS pumps over rebuilds. I bought a few as they are cheap and available. My NOS pump hasnt leaked since I put it on. The gas here in California is the worst and the additives. It has been this way for a while now. I have had no problems with any rubber or other fuel system parts in old cars or old motorcycles including Harleys and a 47 Indian. Only thing I've seen is Kreem tank liner doesnt hold up any more, and breaks down and clogs systems. Por15 works well. Same old scare as no lead, synthetic brake fluid and oils. I use them all and the only problem is keeping synthetic oil from leaking out. These old cars have had some tough stuff run through them back in the day. Most of these products have got better not worse. Drive it, and enjoy it

[bob k. mando]

Yes it is the E85 and It is here now!!!
There is no phase in, they have gone and done it

what, they've eliminated the normal fuels at the pumps altogether? that's crazy ... are you sure about this?

E85 is 85% ethanol. ethanol is ALSO used as an additive to the normal fuel mixes but for those applications it's <10% of volume. that's quite a bit of difference.

ethanol has a higher octane than gasoline so you'll have less knock (if you have such a problem) with an ethanol mix than you would with straight gas but it also has a much lower energy density so you'll also lose fuel mileage.

otoh, any gasoline thinner/additive tends to have that effect so blame the EPA for forcing you to use the eco-'friendly' blend in your area....

[fueler191]

my question is, doesnt this stuff also cut down on accual performance? and can an octane booster, or an additive of some kind be used with this slowly spreading plague?

-jeff-

[Aaron65]

We've been running 10% ethanol at most stations in Michigan (at least in my area) for several years--I haven't noticed a change in performance or economy at all...don't sweat it. Pure E85 at all stations is going to be a ways off at least because not all new cars can run both. Until then...use the 10% stuff and enjoy your car...

[Robert Bates]

I got the following from a website by the National Corn Growers Association

ETHANOL AND YOUR VEHICLE

• Benefits of Ethanol Blends
• Consumer Myth-Busters
• Automakers Approving Ethanol Blends
• Ethanol and Your Motorcycle
• Ethanol and Small Engines
• E85 and Flexible Fuel Vehicles

Benefits of Ethanol Blends

Millions of Americans have driven billions of trouble-free miles using ethanol-blended gasoline over the past quarter century. The majority of this gasoline has been E-10 Unleaded, a blend of 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent ordinary unleaded gasoline. However, E85 (85 percent ethanol and 15 percent ordinary gasoline) is rapidly becoming an important part of the nation’s fuel supply.
Approved for use by every major automaker in the world, E-10 Unleaded provides a number of benefits for drivers:

• Additional octane: The ethanol in E-10 Unleaded adds two to three points of octane to ordinary gasoline, helping improve engine performance.
• Cleaner fuel injectors: Ethanol helps prevent the build-up of power-robbing deposits in fuel injection systems.
• A gas line antifreeze: Ethanol suspends moisture in the fuel systems, eliminating the need for gas tank additives in cold weather.
• Cleaner air: Ethanol reduces toxic emissions in engine exhaust, helping keep America’s air cleaner.

Consumer Myth-Busters
In spite of the fact that billions of trouble-free miles have been driven using ethanol-blended gasoline (most on E-10 Unleaded), some myths still persist regarding its use. Here are the facts:

MYTH:
Ethanol causes “vapor lock.”

FACT: State and federal statutes continue to lower vapor pressure levels, virtually eliminating the vapor lock problems that were reported in the past. Additionally, all major auto manufacturers now use in-tank fuel pumps, which are not subject to vapor lock problems as were the older in-line fuel pumps.

MYTH:
Ethanol plugs up fuel lines and fuel injectors.

FACT: Situations involving plugged fuel filters are virtually non-existent today. In the past (especially in cars made prior to 1975), switching to ethanol-blended gasoline occasionally resulted in the fuel system being scrubbed clean due to the cleansing nature of ethanol. The loosened residue would be caught in the fuel filter—requiring a filter change. Once the filter was changed, the fuel system remained clean, enhancing engine performance.
Some components in gasoline, such as olefins (which are a waxy substance), can cause deposits that foul injectors. But since ethanol burns 100 percent and leaves no residue, it cannot contribute to the formation of deposits. In fact, ethanol blends help keep fuel injectors cleaner.

MYTH:
Ethanol blends can’t be used in small engines.

FACT: E-10 Unleaded is perfectly acceptable in lawn mowers, snowmobiles, ATVs and other small engines that run on ordinary unleaded gasoline. Virtually every small engine manufacturer, including Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Toro/Lawnboy, Kohler and Snapper, approves the use of E-10 Unleaded in its equipment.

MYTH:
Most auto mechanics tell people not to use ethanol-blended gasoline.

FACT: A mechanic who says not to use E-10 Unleaded simply does not have correct information—particularly since every major automaker in the world approves the use of 10 blends ethanol blends under warranty. Fuel formulation and fuel quality have changed dramatically over the years, and many auto mechanics simply don’t have current information or knowledge of these changes and how they affect engine performance. The result: When a problem appears to be fuel related, some mechanics will immediately ask if E-10 Unleaded has been used—and if so, blame ethanol for the problem. In some states, E-10 Unleaded advocates have offered a substantial reward to any customer who can document damage from E-10 Unleaded to his or her car—and so far, no one has ever collected.

MYTH:
E-10 Unleaded cannot be used in older cars.

FACT: The formulation of gasoline has changed considerably over the past few years without affecting the performance of older cars. Many older cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline, with the lead providing the octane necessary for engine performance. When lead was phased out of gasoline, oil companies added toxic chemicals to raise the octane rating and other additives to replace the “lubrication” value of lead.
The ethanol in E-10 Unleaded raises octane in gasoline by three points and it does so using a natural, renewable additive that works well in older engines.
Automakers That Approve Ethanol Blended Gasoline
The use of ethanol-blended fuel (E-10 Unleaded) is approved under warranty by every major automaker in the world including:

• General Motors (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chevy pickups, GMC pickups, Geo, Oldsmobile and Pontiac)
• Ford Motor Company (Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and Ford pickups)
• DaimlerChrysler (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Plymouth and Dodge pickups)
• Acura
• Audi
• BMW
• Honda
• Hyundai
• Infiniti
• Isuzu
• Jaguar
• Kia
• Land Rover
• Lexus
• Mercedes-Benz
• Mazda
• Mitsubishi
• Nissan
• Porsche
• Rolls Royce/Bentley
• Saab
• Saturn
• Subaru
• Suzuki
• Toyota
• Volkswagen
• Volvo

Ethanol-Blended Fuel and Your Motorcycle
The use of E-10 Unleaded is approved for use by major motorcycle manufacturers including Harley-Davidson, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha. Harley-Davidson goes so far as to recommend the use of renewable, clean air fuels such as E-10 Unleaded because of their environmental and performance benefits.
Use of Ethanol Blends in Small Engines
More than 40 percent of the gasoline sold across the United States contains oxygenates such as ethanol, so small engine manufacturers have made certain their engines perform on these clean-burning fuels. Generally, E-10 Unleaded may be used anywhere that ordinary unleaded gasoline is used—from lawn mowers to personal watercraft, from power equipment to marine engines. Check your owner’s manual for specific information regarding your equipment.
Off-road vehicles such as ATVs and snowmobiles do not have pollution control devices, as do passenger cars and trucks. Ethanol-blended gasoline helps reduce exhaust pollution from these types of vehicles. That’s one reason that Yellowstone National Park requires that all fuel sold in the park contain 10 percent ethanol.
E85 and Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFVs)
There has been a dramatic increase in the availability of E85—a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent ordinary unleaded gasoline. All major American automakers offer models that can operate on E85. Called Flexible Fuel Vehicles or FFVs, these vehicles can actually run on E85, E-10 Unleaded, ordinary unleaded gasoline—or any combination thereof. A computer in the fuel system automatically adjusts for the level of ethanol in the fuel. In other words, FFV owners do not have to fill up with E85 all the time.
The number of E85 stations is increasing every month. For a current list of E85 stations and a list of FFVs available, visit: www.e85fuel.com.

[Tom Gallagher]

Hey Bob

Interesting Article!

Thank's for sharing the Valued Information

Regards,

Tom Gallagher