Buick 462 500+ hp build

swebuick455

Active Member
Do not buy any parts until you do your research. There are custom pistons available from Diamond and Autotec. They will allow you to build a zero deck engine. There are drop in forged rods to allow you to build a 470 or 482.




Does the bottom end hold up with a 470 and a 482 tho? When do I need the TA girdle?
 

swebuick455

Active Member
My engine made 602 HP, and I keep it under 6000 RPM. No need for a girdle unless you want to make 650 HP or more and need to rev the engine to 7000 RPM or more. The TA aluminum block is the way to go. The Girdle is just a band-aid for the stock block.

I thought it was the torque that killed the bottom end? Would a stock one hold up for 500-550hp as long as i have a cam that gives it good low to midrange power?
 
1246322 is a 75-76 open chamber head casting number. That is what it looks like to me. 1248922 is a 72-76 head casting number that could be open or closed chamber depending on the year.

It is the speed and weight of the rod and piston assembly that can hurt a bottom end. The heavier the assembly and faster it accelerates up and down, the greater the force it exerts on the bottom end and rod. A 500ish HP engine spinning to 5800 RPM regularly is going to be ok with stock rods with upgraded bolts and a forged piston a little heavier then stock. This is provided you have adequate oiling. Main studs (and proper installation) instead of bolts should be considered here as well. My 462 spun to 6000 RPM at the track regularly with stock rods, upgraded rod bolts, main studs and J&E forged pistons.
 
I thought it was the torque that killed the bottom end? Would a stock one hold up for 500-550hp as long as i have a cam that gives it good low to midrange power?
Did you read the build thread for my engine? My motor made 602 HP@5900 RPM, and 589TQ@4900 RPM. I have a stock block with no girdles. The motor has been together for going on 11 years now. My car at 4100 lbs. runs consistent mid 11 second quarter mile passes, and is a blast to drive. Dennis Manner, the lead engineer for the Buick 400-430-455 told me it isn't the power, it's the RPM that will hurt the engine.

If you build an engine with great flowing aluminum cylinder heads, and run 10.5:1 static compression, a cam with about 230* of intake duration, you'll make 500+ HP and TQ easily. Quality machine work, and building the engine with proper bearing clearances will ensure a long life.
 

swebuick455

Active Member
1246322 is a 75-76 open chamber head casting number. That is what it looks like to me. 1248922 is a 72-76 head casting number that could be open or closed chamber depending on the year.

It is the speed and weight of the rod and piston assembly that can hurt a bottom end. The heavier the assembly and faster it accelerates up and down, the greater the force it exerts on the bottom end and rod. A 500ish HP engine spinning to 5800 RPM regularly is going to be ok with stock rods with upgraded bolts and a forged piston a little heavier then stock. This is provided you have adequate oiling. My 462 spun to 6000 RPM at the track regularly with stock rods, upgraded rod bolts and J&E forged pistons.
I'm only looking to build a raw badass cruising car that is a "brawler". Needs to sound raw tho...
 

swebuick455

Active Member
1246322 is a 75-76 open chamber head casting number. That is what it looks like to me. 1248922 is a 72-76 head casting number that could be open or closed chamber depending on the year.
That tells me nothing really. Sorry, I'm not that good at these cars... What is an open chamber and closed chamber? Which is the one to prefer for my needs? If I were to port the heads. I have a guy that can do machine work on those iron heads. But I need to know if they are the right ones.
 

swebuick455

Active Member
How much money do you have to spend?
As little as possible... :LOL:

No, actually. The previous owners says the car should be over 400 hp. It moves alright, but I need more "go"! But I think this will be a "long term project" since I don't have 10-15k just sitting around.
 
1975 and 76 heads are open chamber, and are useless for a performance engine.

ClosedOpenCylinderHeads.jpg
Closed chamber top, open chamber bottom. Note the above are not Buick heads, but you get the idea.
 
As little as possible... :LOL:

No, actually. The previous owners says the car should be over 400 hp. It moves alright, but I need more "go"! But I think this will be a "long term project" since I don't have 10-15k just sitting around.
Well, I guess you can dream then. Buick engines are much more expensive to build because performance parts are more expensive. Good aluminum cylinder heads are about 3000.00. Porting iron cylinder heads is very labor intensive. If you don't know what you are doing, you can ruin the heads as well. Even if you know someone good, you will never reach the flow of out of the box aluminum heads. You are in Sweden, that makes it even harder. Here in the U.S., you are looking at 15,000.00 to build an engine that will make 500+ HP. That's the bottom line.

Previous owners are a notoriously unreliable source of information. They are more likely to tell you what you want to hear.
 
Attached is information from an article subtitled “Our Quest: 500 Hp for $4,000 on Pump Gas” out of the Alternative Engine Series in the May 1998 issue of Hot Rod magazine. Rob Chilenski of Stage 1 Automotive builds a 464 cid Buick that does just that in the article. The engine was estimated at 501 HP based on an ET of 11.59 at 117.2 from a 3950 lb. race weight Skylark. The heads where Stg 1 Level 2 by Greg Gessler, and the combination used a GSCAs Hemi-Killer cam. Scotty Gudagano from Pee Gee Performance did the machine work. Below is the detailed carb to pan parts and prices from the article. Its over 20 years old, but you can get an idea of what is needed from it. I'd add at least 25% more for parts these days:



Block—block core, bore, bake and freeze plugs $420

Pistons-- JE forged 10.5 : 1 .038" over, includes lightweight pins $649

Rod bearings--Clevite 77 # CB762P $42

Rings--Sealed Power # R-9798 $127

Heads-- Gessler Level 2 complete $ 1,195

Pushrods-- $70

Crankshaft-- Stock .010 under $80

Main Bearings-- Clevite 77 # MS908P $64

Camshaft & Lifters -- Lunati 214*-241* GSCA Hemi-Killer includes lifters $200

Cam Bearings-- Clevite 77 # H-1361-S $20

Timing Set-- TA Billet # 1524 $109

Intake-- Edelbrock Performer $238

Carb-- rebuilt Q-Jet $150

Ignition--rebuilt GM HEI $100

Oil Pump-- Sealed Power High Volume $65

Front Seal (timing cover)-- Federal Mogul # 450446 $9

Rear Seal-- Fel-Pro # BS40012 $14

Exhaust Headers-- TA Performance $269

Buick GSCA Membership-- $30



Total costs of parts and machining listed in the article was $3851. Shipping and non-machining labor costs were not included, and may vary depending on the area. Additionally costs should probably include balancing the assembly at a cost of about $150 and installing the cam bearings at a cost of around $30. This would allow the rest of the assembly at home for a total cost of $4031. ARP rod bolts ($60) and reconditioning the rods ($70) might be another consideration that would push the total to $4161, and I did not see a cost associated with pressing the pistons on the rods. Not a bad price for 500 Hp on pump gas in any case.
 

swebuick455

Active Member
J
Attached is information from an article subtitled “Our Quest: 500 Hp for $4,000 on Pump Gas” out of the Alternative Engine Series in the May 1998 issue of Hot Rod magazine. Rob Chilenski of Stage 1 Automotive builds a 464 cid Buick that does just that in the article. The engine was estimated at 501 HP based on an ET of 11.59 at 117.2 from a 3950 lb. race weight Skylark. The heads where Stg 1 Level 2 by Greg Gessler, and the combination used a GSCAs Hemi-Killer cam. Scotty Gudagano from Pee Gee Performance did the machine work. Below is the detailed carb to pan parts and prices from the article. Its over 20 years old, but you can get an idea of what is needed from it. I'd add at least 25% more for parts these days:



Block—block core, bore, bake and freeze plugs $420

Pistons-- JE forged 10.5 : 1 .038" over, includes lightweight pins $649

Rod bearings--Clevite 77 # CB762P $42

Rings--Sealed Power # R-9798 $127

Heads-- Gessler Level 2 complete $ 1,195

Pushrods-- $70

Crankshaft-- Stock .010 under $80

Main Bearings-- Clevite 77 # MS908P $64

Camshaft & Lifters -- Lunati 214*-241* GSCA Hemi-Killer includes lifters $200

Cam Bearings-- Clevite 77 # H-1361-S $20

Timing Set-- TA Billet # 1524 $109

Intake-- Edelbrock Performer $238

Carb-- rebuilt Q-Jet $150

Ignition--rebuilt GM HEI $100

Oil Pump-- Sealed Power High Volume $65

Front Seal (timing cover)-- Federal Mogul # 450446 $9

Rear Seal-- Fel-Pro # BS40012 $14

Exhaust Headers-- TA Performance $269

Buick GSCA Membership-- $30



Total costs of parts and machining listed in the article was $3851. Shipping and non-machining labor costs were not included, and may vary depending on the area. Additionally costs should probably include balancing the assembly at a cost of about $150 and installing the cam bearings at a cost of around $30. This would allow the rest of the assembly at home for a total cost of $4031. ARP rod bolts ($60) and reconditioning the rods ($70) might be another consideration that would push the total to $4161, and I did not see a cost associated with pressing the pistons on the rods. Not a bad price for 500 Hp on pump gas in any case.
Geeez... that's cheap. What year is your engine block? Also I cannot find your cam, is it the "Lunati Hemi killer cam"? How does Lunati compare to TA cams?
 
J

Geeez... that's cheap. What year is your engine block? Also I cannot find your cam, is it the "Lunati Hemi killer cam"? How does Lunati compare to TA cams?
That was in 1998, and it was cheap then. That isn't even remotely realistic today. Those iron heads are ported. Today, that would eat up a large portion of that 4000.00. The Hemi Killer cam is a moderately sized cam. It has a rough idle. You would want a hi stall converter and deeper gears to run it.


Making HP in a Buick engine is not cheap. If you can't afford it, I suggest you delay your gratification and save until you can.
 

swebuick455

Active Member
Headers are the best way to get the increased flow of air out and away from the engine with less restriction. There are ported exhaust manifold, but they are less efficient and can be unfriendly to a budget. Huge headers in this case would be a mistake and hurt the scavenging effect. I'd look for a used set of 1 7/8" headers that have been ceramic coated. These tend to have more then one life in them. Beyond that, at least 2.5" exhaust system will be needed in your case. An X or H in the exhaust can be helpful, but not necessary on a budget.
Are Mickey Thompson Super Scavenger headers any good? Or is there better ones?
 
Are Mickey Thompson Super Scavenger headers any good? Or is there better ones?
Yes, they have a very unique sound. They are not made anymore, and hard to find. I have a set on my car.




 
Last edited:

swebuick455

Active Member
Yes, they have a very unique sound. They are not made anymore, and hard to find. I have a set on my car.




What alternatives are there that sound and has the same effect?
 

swebuick455

Active Member
I just saw that there is a company that recreates the original M/T SS headers. They're called Sweet Ave Fabrications or something. Trying to get hold of them.
 

swebuick455

Active Member
Attached is information from an article subtitled “Our Quest: 500 Hp for $4,000 on Pump Gas” out of the Alternative Engine Series in the May 1998 issue of Hot Rod magazine. Rob Chilenski of Stage 1 Automotive builds a 464 cid Buick that does just that in the article. The engine was estimated at 501 HP based on an ET of 11.59 at 117.2 from a 3950 lb. race weight Skylark. The heads where Stg 1 Level 2 by Greg Gessler, and the combination used a GSCAs Hemi-Killer cam. Scotty Gudagano from Pee Gee Performance did the machine work. Below is the detailed carb to pan parts and prices from the article. Its over 20 years old, but you can get an idea of what is needed from it. I'd add at least 25% more for parts these days:



Block—block core, bore, bake and freeze plugs $420

Pistons-- JE forged 10.5 : 1 .038" over, includes lightweight pins $649

Rod bearings--Clevite 77 # CB762P $42

Rings--Sealed Power # R-9798 $127

Heads-- Gessler Level 2 complete $ 1,195

Pushrods-- $70

Crankshaft-- Stock .010 under $80

Main Bearings-- Clevite 77 # MS908P $64

Camshaft & Lifters -- Lunati 214*-241* GSCA Hemi-Killer includes lifters $200

Cam Bearings-- Clevite 77 # H-1361-S $20

Timing Set-- TA Billet # 1524 $109

Intake-- Edelbrock Performer $238

Carb-- rebuilt Q-Jet $150

Ignition--rebuilt GM HEI $100

Oil Pump-- Sealed Power High Volume $65

Front Seal (timing cover)-- Federal Mogul # 450446 $9

Rear Seal-- Fel-Pro # BS40012 $14

Exhaust Headers-- TA Performance $269

Buick GSCA Membership-- $30



Total costs of parts and machining listed in the article was $3851. Shipping and non-machining labor costs were not included, and may vary depending on the area. Additionally costs should probably include balancing the assembly at a cost of about $150 and installing the cam bearings at a cost of around $30. This would allow the rest of the assembly at home for a total cost of $4031. ARP rod bolts ($60) and reconditioning the rods ($70) might be another consideration that would push the total to $4161, and I did not see a cost associated with pressing the pistons on the rods. Not a bad price for 500 Hp on pump gas in any case.
How bout Hooker Super competition long tubes? I don't have TA parts where I live.

How do the Hooker Super competition long tube headers compare to the M/T Super scavenger headers?
 
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