The "epic" 430 rebuild caper!

[Dr. Frankenbuick]

Thanks for the broader perspective - cuz I just plain didn't know what Buick was up to in 69!

As a teen with a part time income in the late 70s and a desire to go faster with a Buick, Dr. Frankenbuick was forced to become more worldly concerning mixing and matching parts. Going to the junk yard was like going to the mall, and yard parts were plentiful and cheap. Most of the good parts from known cars were already long gone, and this left lesser known cars that had the same parts (wagons and V6 cars for rears). These were still plentiful if you knew they were there.

One of the better of these creations was a 65 four door Skylark with a broken V6 and 3.08 posi rear for $100, a 430 traded for a 340 and TH 400 from the yard at $75. It smoked a little and burnt some oil, but it would move out. Well, at one point a friend bought a new 85 Iroc Z and set his sights on old Smokey as his first victim. They were lined up every way possible with the same result every time: the Z saw the 65 tail lights and a cloud of smoke. It was several weeks before any line of communication was reopened! Of course, another lesson learned was that minimal assessment and rebuilding, as opposed to just patching things together, helped these creations sustain life longer. And so, the good Dr. was well on his way to his specialty of reviving and reinventing those resting (or rusting) quietly for his own perverted satisfaction.

[elagache]

Dear Dr. Frankenbuick (and Team Buick members)

As a teen with a part time income in the late 70s and a desire to go faster with a Buick, . . . . . .

Thanks so much for sharing with us this story of how you obtained your medical "degree" in the art of souping up Buicks!

One of the better of these creations was a 65 four door Skylark with a broken V6 and 3.08 posi rear for $100, a 430 traded for a 340 and TH 400 from the yard at $75. It smoked a little and burnt some oil, but it would move out. Well, at one point a friend bought a new 85 Iroc Z and set his sights on old Smokey as his first victim. They were lined up every way possible with the same result every time: the Z saw the 65 tail lights and a cloud of smoke. It was several weeks before any line of communication was reopened! . . . . .

I LOVE it!!

Part of my crash course in automotive drive train technology, I've been really surprised by the choices made by Detroit. Your friend must have been really shocked, but I wonder how many folks second-guess the powerplants in their cars. As I've been educated by folks like you and Paul Muller, I'm really surprised that initiatives like Buick's own turbocharging efforts in the 80s didn't catch on.

Ya' think this time Detroit will get the message?

Cheers, Edouard

[elagache]

Dear Team Buick big block fans,

Just a quick news update on my efforts to rebuild my 430 V-8. The block passed Magnaflux inspection and all indications are that I have a really solid starting point for this build. The machinist sees no signs that this engine has been reworked since leaving the Buick factory. It's as good a point of departure as you get.

I'll meet with the machinist next week to get the details and take some photos of the bare block before he goes to work on it. I'll be sure to bring all the wonderful advice you'all have given me!

Thanks again for all the help!

Cheers, Edouard

[Dr. Frankenbuick]

Yes, engine pictures would be nice, and some when there is paint on the body too!

[elagache]

Dear Good Dr. Frankenbuick and members of the Team Buick "Brotherhood"

Yes, engine pictures would be nice, and some when there is paint on the body too!

I visited "da patent" on Monday, but alas no final paint on this poor car. The welds to repair the door panels from the very un-wise aftermarket external rear-view mirrors my Dad put on the car are standing in the way of getting the car painted. Must not be an easy repair, because it keeps being put off. Oh well, I hope they'll bite the bullet and get on with it!

As to engine block pictures. Well, what do ya expect from a cleaned engine block? Here are 4 photos I took this morning at the machine shop:

http://gallery.me.com/elagache#100077

I've got to make up my mind on the compression ratio. If I could trust the California Air Resources Board then I would stick to Dr. Frankenbuick's suggested 9.75:1. However, I'm worried about what might happen if the bureaucrats get even meaner toward "mature cars." At the moment nothing is shaking my confidence in the good doctor's recommendation. Unless someone gets me discouraged 9.75:1 it will be! With that decision made, I can order the pistons and get on with this build!

Thanks as always for the helpful encouragement!

Cheers, Edouard

[elagache]

Dear Team Buick members,

Alas, everything is slower and more complicated than I ever could have feared. However, there is at least a little progress on getting my venerable wagon out of the body shop. They have finally painted the car! Here are some photos of the shop's match for 1965 Buick "Seafoam Green."

http://gallery.me.com/elagache#100093

Over the years I hadn't noticed how much the green had faded. It isn't going to give the car any additional sympathy from the environmental movement, but it's nice the see the car with her original Seafoam Green again!

Cheers, Edouard

[Dr. Frankenbuick]

That is starting to look very good Edouard. I can almost picture the trim and bumpers on it. You are getting there, and once it is done the angst will be forgotten.

[elagache]

Dear Team Buick members,

If you remember my first postings on this forum, I was sternly warned to be very careful to avoid having a Buick engine rebuilt by someone who didn't take the tight Buick tolerances seriously.

Alas, when I met with the local machinist working on my 430 block I got a "yeah, yeah . . . sure, sure . . . tight Buick tolerances." Then when I tried to get the parameters for forged pistons I was basically told: "this is no place for amateurs - let us pros figure this stuff out."

I certainly agree that I'm a newbie (never mind amateur), but the reason I was trying to get these specifications was because on one else had stepped to the plate to make sure this engine would do what I wanted. In particular, that this engine would be very fuel-efficient (as much as big-block Buicks can be.) I was looking to spend a ton of money and the one thing I lacked was an expert to put the components together such that I ended up with what I wanted.

It was time to give up on the idea of having the engine built locally. After some thought, I've decided to ask Jim Weise and Tri Shield Performance to build an engine for my trusty billy goat wagon. If there is anyone who can squeeze fuel economy out of these stout engines - he can.

The process of coming up with engine specs has just started. So far, what Jim has suggested tell me I was on the right track (thanks in so small part to advice I found here!) Yet, Jim has also surprised me with good ideas I had dismissed for lack of good information. So finally I'm feeling much more hopeful about this project. There was no way this build was going to be cheap, but nothing could be worse than squandering good money on quality components that aren't put together properly.

So the epic 430 rebuild caper takes another turn. Stay tuned for the next episode in this soap opera!

Cheers, Edouard

[pmuller9]

Dear Dr Frankenbuick

I would like to revisit something that was played with back in the 1970s and early 80s during the
oil embargo.

The game was to take a mild cam profile and do an asymmetrical intake lobe with a long trailing
ramp that would close the intake valve on the seat close to 90 degrees. This would allow just
over 13:1 SCR while maintaining an 8:1 DCR.

Low end torque was traded for engine efficiency. However I don’t remember seeing anyone
experimenting on a large displacement engine where there was torque to spare.

Would you be willing to re-run the simulation of the TA 212 cam retarded 11 degrees from its
straight up position so the intake valve closes on the seat 75 degrees ABDC using a SCR of 11:1.
Also increase the total volume from 435.9 to 462

Would it be possible to profile the TA 212 on the simulator so the intake valve closes at 89
degrees ABDC while holding the rest of the lobe parameters at the normal TA 212 specs
and use a SCR of 13:1

If this is doable please make any changes that you feel would be beneficial.
I’m looking forward to your feedback.

Thank You

Paul

[bob k. mando]

I suppose in 65, Buick choose the 3.08 rear-end in part to compensate a bit for the car being a little underpowered. Crunching the numbers shows that the 3.23 rear end is still reasonably comfortable.


errr, that's backwards thinking.

numerically higher gears are typically referred to as being "shorter" ( the 3.23 ) and result in faster accelleration, lower fuel economy and higher engine rpm at a given speed. they are typically used in applications where the engine is on the underpowered side OR when the application is expected to do a lot of towing or hauling.

numerically lower gears are typically referred to as being "taller" ( the 3.08 ) and give you a higher top speed ( unless drag limited ) and better fuel economy at the expense of accelleration. torque monster engines love taller gears for highway cruising and many of the mid-70s BBB applications were down around 2.56 to 1.

Car and Driver did one of their heads up tests between the Mustang and Camaro years ago and the Ford SVO guys told C&D to make their top speed run in 4th gear because the car was drag limited to a lower speed in 5th. we never found out what the Mustang would turn because C&D blew up the test mule in 4th. that's one of the VERY few times that you'll actually see somebody go for a shorter gear for a top speed run.



After some thought, I've decided to ask Jim Weise and Tri Shield Performance to build an engine for my trusty billy goat wagon.


can't hardly go wrong there.

good on you for having the stones to yank the project out of the other guys shop when it became clear that he wasn't interested in listening to you.



Yet, Jim has also surprised me with good ideas I had dismissed for lack of good information.

if Weise doesn't mind you posting some of these tidbits it would be interesting to hear. he's had a lot of success with these engines.




I've got to make up my mind on the compression ratio. If I could trust the California Air Resources Board then I would stick to Dr. Frankenbuick's suggested 9.75:1. However, I'm worried about what might happen if the bureaucrats get even meaner toward "mature cars." At the moment nothing is shaking my confidence in the good doctor's recommendation. Unless someone gets me discouraged 9.75:1 it will be!

not to completely monkey wrench you, but are you aware that LP conversions are popular in Europe? they run silly CR numbers like 18 or 20 to 1.

that might permit you to bypass the CARB board altogether.