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Thread: 73 455 in my 76 what to know??

  1. #11
    Bob
    Thank You. I always thought that they were the same,and they just drilled the extra head bolt holes for the Olds.
    Joe T
    37Buick coupe /455 powered
    40 Super convert
    72 GS455 convert 13.0/105
    69 Buick Sportwagon
    92 Road,aster wagon
    04 Rendezvous

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Buick info

    1st of all, NO the 231 " Nailhead Buick V8 and the 215" all aluminum Olds did not share blocks or anything else for that matter outside of accessories, carbs in the case of the 2v and 4v versions of each and exhaust systems aft of the exhaust manifolds.
    2cnd Buick has never in its entire history produced an all aluminum engine of ANY configuration; in point of fact the 231" Nail head V8 we speak of now is the only Buick engine ever produced that incorporated ANY aluminum or ANY OTHER ALLOY IN THE BLOCK OR THE HEAD CASTINGS, and not all of those incorporated an aluminum head. The base model designation for the Skylark thruout its production was the Buick Special. The latter that came with a V8 came with one that was ALL CAST IRON, only special order Skylarks came with the aluminum heads and only 1962 and early 1963 model year productions of those. Model years at GM run from July 1 of the year number preceeding the model year number thru June 30 of the model year number for fiscal years and from July 15 of the year number preceeding the model year number ending on June 30 for the model PRODUCTION year. This has been the case at GM since the 1953 Model year when the Cortvette was released, 1st built exclusively and in its entirerty here in Flint at the Van Slyke Blvd Chevrolet complex. Due to the inadequacy of the metallurgy tech at the time Buick was unable to secure an acceptable failure rate for the aluminum headed cast iron block versions and said aluminum head option was dropped for the end of the 1963 model year productions, after which time ALL 231" Nailhead V8 engines came with cast iron heads and a cast iron block, including the left over ones that were an available option for the 1964 and 1965 Cutlass' and Cutlass wagons. Strangely enuff 1963 was the last year one could have or option the engine in a BUICK specific model.
    As for where i get my information, same comes from the experience of ownership as well as mechanical repairs on both the Buick Nail head V8 as well as the Olds all aluminum V8 IN THE 60's when the cars were actually being produced and sold. Not to mention i live in the home and birthplace of BUICK, GM, Chevrolet, GMC and the United Auto Workers Union, the last 20+ plus years directly across the street from the Industrial Avenue North entrance to the BUICK CITY COMPLEX.
    My information is further backed by my ME degree/ Automotive applications from GMI, as in GENERAL MOTORS INSTITUTE, who's chief founding fellow was non other than Charles Kettering, for whom the institution was renamed Kettering University shortly after my graduation from same in January of 1995. Mr. Kettering, at the time of the Founding of GMI, was the 3rd CEO of Buick Motor division, following 1st William C. Durant Jr; who incorporated GM as GM under BUICK as the founding and parent Division which it still remains as to this very day; 2cnd CEO was Walter P. Chrysler who began his automotive production career as an engineer/ journeyman plumber at Buick before the incorporation of Buick into GM by Billy Durant Jr. or Billy Jr. as he was UNaffectionately known. In fact, that was the proffession of David Dunbar Buick, the founder of BUICK. Mr. Kettering recieved CEOship of Buick Motor Division, in part as compensation for the purchase of his DAYTON ELECTRIC COMPANY(DELCO) which he founded in 2 barns in his backyard in Dayton, Ohio and went on to produce the 1st viable automotive electric starter before the company was bought by GM, after same had purchased Cadillac/Lassalle which had 77% consignment of production of said starter; in point of fact, the procurement of this production quota for Mr. Kettering's starter was the the majority consideration for GM in the purchase of these 2, at the time, INDEPDANT CAR COMPANIES, adding weight to the buyout proposal given Mr. Kettering when his company was purchased later.
    The entire history of Michigan, indeed ALL, domestic automotive production is required and tested on study in order to achieve either of the only 2 degrees GMI/KETTERING UNIVERSITY has ever offered. Mechanical Engineering and Business Management/Administration.
    Also part and parcel of Mr. Kettering's buyout was the Cheif founding Fellow position at GMI, in point of fact it was HIS BABY and pet project, financed by GM based on Mr. Kettering's proposal to found a dedicated top notch school to produce highly trained and skilled engineers and business administrators obstensively for domestic auto producers but specifically GM, which is why it was founded in the home and birthplace of GM, Flint, NOT DETROIT. Mr. Kettering wrote the cirriculum outline by which Kettering yet operates. Not only is Kettering world renounded and reconized in producing engineers and business managers for the automotive indiustry, there is NO AUTOMOTIVE manufacturing concern on planet Earth that does not have 1 or more persons in their employ who either graduated from GMI/Kettering or have attended same at some point in time.
    The argument that they would teach myself, or any other student, false information fails on its premise since such renoun and acclaim could not be possible were that the case. Beside's that, my intership for my engineering degree was 1 year following my 5th year thesis AT GM. 1st at Chevrolet assembly #36 1 block south of the GMI campus on Chevrolet Blvd here in Flint, and the latter 6 months at The Pontiac Proving Grounds(now just known as the GM test and development center or GM Proving Grounds in Milford/Drayton Plains, Michigan. In both instances, what i learned at GMI was reinforced and reinterated to a great degree, including the Buick and GM history on which we now speak.... in point of fact intricate details of same, most of which is NOT GENERAL public knowlege.
    As i said in a previous post, even most die hard avid Buick fanatics such as myself do not fully understand what they are working with or even how or why they work as they do, to a great degree, myself included before attending and graduating from GMI.
    Like as not the most valuable lesson i learned at GMI was how to differentiate between what one knows and what one just thinks they know... these are almost never mutually inclusive, especially as it pertains to automotive production.
    I found that i was operating based on what i ASSumed was fact in great part while in actuallity much of it was supposition and specualation based on the supposition and specualtion of the writer or speaker to whom i attributed learning these supposed facts from.
    I am not trying to come off beligerant or know it all about this or any other subject. No one knows it all and no one is ALWAYS right. By the same token, my education and experience in this particular field of study and endeavor make that what i KNOW of it is far more than MOST, matter of fact i am knowsy period and always have been, especially about that which i like and love. So much do i love the ins and outs and ramifications of this particular subject that there is no vehicle produced on Planet Earth that i could not work on W/O supervision useing just manuals for reference, even those on which i have not been trained. There are only 2 vehicle types produced on the planet that i can not operate, a fixed wing aircraft and a rocketship, i say that only because i have never done it or tried but i am confident i could learn to and at a more accellerated level than the average. I bought, from my own earnings, my 1st car in 1963, 3 months prior to my 14th birthday and at the time i couldn't have even taken the test to get a drivers permit, let alone a lic. I had my 1st drag race in that car on July 5, 1963, oddly enuff against the uncle from whom i bought the car. I bought my 1st motorcycle the following year before age 15, i have been buying, modifiing and drag racing both since, predominantly BOP's, Hondas and Kawasaki's. as a matter of fact, i currently own Hot rods which are and or are powered by all 3 BOP's, as well as one that is and is powered by Kawasaki..... a 455 Buick based engine powered 1988 BMW 327A Post Coupe, a 455 H.O. based powered 1977 4spd WS6 Pontiac Trans Am, a 403 Olds Powered 1978 Buick Lesabre 4dr Custom and a 1995 Kawasaki ZX11D Ninja, all of which (I) modified to some degree and race successufully as i win more than i loose which is the best any racer can say or hope for.
    I reinterate something i said in a previous post, What i say, or post as it were, is fact that I KNOW, unless i preface or suffix same with the fact that it is what i think or believe, or have heard or read.
    BTW, the difference between what one knows and what one thinks ? What one knows is only that which they learn of experience, as in hands on actually doing whatever ur talking about you KNOW, what one thinks is just that, and outside of what one actually knows.
    Further, one can verify a great deal of the info i have imparted here by contacting www.sloanmuseum.com or the Kettering University Archives, be prepared to do a whole lot of reading in either case and be prepared to do so with an open mind.
    The attachment is some verification of other facts that many may disagree with, specifically that for the 1970 hgh water muscle car year the top 3 quickest showroom condition slots were HELD BY BUICKS.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #13
    Mr Wizard
    Just for what it is worth, I have lived in Flint for my whole life and have also studied Buick extensively.
    I am not sure where yiu gat some of your info , but MUCH of it is wrong !!! I have worked at Sloan Museum for years.and also worked down the hill from GMI. I went there in the 50s, and The Chevrolet plant down the hill was divided into 2 units. They were the engine plant whrere thay built the 6 cylinder, and the pressed metal plant where thay made mostly fenders. There never was a "plant 36" there to my knowledge.
    I have been involved with Buicks for years, and am good friends with the retired enginerr Denny Manner who was involved with theses engines for years.
    I would honestly like to see your documentation,so PM me and let us see if we can resolve our differences amicably
    Joe T
    37Buick coupe /455 powered
    40 Super convert
    72 GS455 convert 13.0/105
    69 Buick Sportwagon
    92 Road,aster wagon
    04 Rendezvous

  4. #14
    you say that there has never been an all aluminum, 215ci v8 engine from Buick?

    how then, do you explain the power plants of the XP-300 and Le Sabre concept cars from 1951?




    1st of all, NO the 231 " Nailhead Buick V8


    the bore and stroke of all engines are public knowledge.

    if the public knowledge was NOT accurate, how then could piston manufacturers fill orders for replacement pistons?

    how could rod manufacturers manufacture correct length rods?

    how could machinists properly deck blocks or assemble rotating assemblies if all of the publicly available knowledge was a lie?

    asserting that all public documentation on the basic architecture of these engines is a lie strains credulity.



    knowing the bore and stroke and number of cylinders ALL engine displacements can be calculated independently of any manufacturer statements. hence the knowledge that the "400" ci engine in Buick A-bodies prior to 1967 was actually the standard 401ci Nailhead and that the only reason the engine was ever called a "400" was because of Buick playing paperwork games with GM edicts to not exceed 400ci in a mid-size car.

    IF Buick ever called one if it's v8s a 231ci, that was quite far off from it's actual displacement. which would be neither the first nor the last time that a GM engine has been so mislabeled. the 402ci "396" Chevy comes to mind as well as the aforementioned "400".




    I have worked at Sloan Museum for years.


    would you be interested in my spreadsheet? having somebody with direct access to the records proof my work would be useful.

    MrWizard's point about unthinkingly propagating false information simply because someone else is saying it does have some validity.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

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