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Thread: '64 300 Problems

  1. #1

    '64 300 Problems

    Howdy!! I'm new here, and am having an issue. There's a bit of back story here, so please bear with me.

    About a year ago, I bought a 1964 Buick Skylark HT, equipped with a 2bbl 300, backed with an ST300. It ran alright, so I ran it as purchased.

    One thing that I noticed was the lack of power, obviously due to the 2bbl carb. So, when the oppurtunity presented itself, I bought a set of aluminum heads and a 4 bbl manifold. I also bought a 570 CFM Holley Street Avenger carb. Using an adapter, the carb bolted on perfectly. (For the record, I've used Holley carbs on just about every "modern" V8 that I've ever played with, so I'm very familiar with them. I looked around for a "correct" 4 bbl carb, but couldn't find one in decent shape for a decent price. This car is a driver, after all; no chance of it being restored to perfection.)

    I had the heads rebuilt, and I disassembled the manifold and bead blasted it.

    Anyway, now that I have it all back together, it won't start. I get the occasional pop, but that's about it. I am using a PerTronix unit, which is brand new. (More back story: Right after I bought the car, I put a PerTronix unit in it, and had no problems with it. The car sat for quite a while, so when I first started having these non-starting issues, I replaced the unit, thinking that the first one might have gone bad.)

    It's definitely getting gas, the timing is statically set, and all the valves are opening and closing when they should. When I turn the engine over by hand, I can hear and feel compression.

    Electrically, the current seems a little weak, but not so weak that the car shouldn't start. This is also due to my trying to get the thing started for the last week or so.

    I'm stumped, but a couple of things have crossed my mind. The first is that I think that the valves could be slightly open. The pushrods do not spin when the valves and rockers are at rest. Is there a specific torque value that the rocker assemblies should be torqued to? I couldn't find one anywhere.

    The second thought that I'm having is that the heads might be incompatible with the pistons and decks, as far as the compression ratio is concerned. According to several books and websites, the HP version of the '64 Skylark had an 11:1 compression ration (4 bbl), whereas the "regular" version of the V8 equipped Skylark had a 9:1 compression ratio (2 bbl). I'm assuming that this was through a combination of pistons and heads. Is it possible that putting these heads on my engine would cause the compression ratio to drop below what would be an acceptable, low compression limit? It doesn't seem very likely to me, but anything's possible.

    I've tried playing around with the timing a lot, and can't get any other results than the occasional pop mentioned above.

    The battery is brand new, the starter is brand new, the ignition is brand new, the plug wires are brand new, the plugs are brand new and gapped properly, the wiring has been checked and rechecked.

    What's killing me here is that the car ran when I parked it a few months ago. Any suggestions would be appreciated...
    Last edited by Mad Jack; 03-22-2006 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Forgotten Fact

  2. #2
    Update: I got the thing to fire FINALLY!! I reset the timing again, and I tightened up the rocker shafts until the shaft towers just squeezed out a little oil. Then, I borrowed a neighbor's battery charger/jumpstarter, and let it charge for an hour or so. When it got up to 14.4v, I couldn't wait any longer. It fired, though only briefly. At least I know now that it will run.

    I never thought that it would be electrical issues. Go figure...

  3. #3
    Have you checked for spark. I would try putting the points back in & see what happens. If the machine shop that rebuilt the heads didn't properly set valve height the valves could be being held open ever so slightly causing very low compression. Take a compression test. The plugs are more than likely gas fouled so, even though they are new, replace them. Remove the valve covers & loosen the rocker shaft bolts a couple turns & see if it starts. If you ended up with 6-1 compression ratio or 13-1 compression ratio the engine should still start. An engine needs three things to run. One of those things not present & you, I & all would not be here typing on our puters. The others are heat, spark, & food, gas. Without them no start. Have you tried starting fluid just for the hey of it. I don't like to use it except when trying to pinpoint a problem. Let us know how you make out.

  4. #4
    Thanks, TelRiv!! Yeah, it's running now. Apparently it was an overtaxed battery, and quite possibly the valves. I backed off the tower bolts, and then tightened them up until they just squished out the oil that was between the tower bases and the mounting bosses on the heads. I'm going to tighten them back up now that it's running, and see what happens.

    The batttery is now sitting on the charger. I get the feeling that tomorrow I'll be doing a lot of cranking.

    I have a few mods to make using my lathe (the accelerator arm needs to be threaded just a little bit further back), and I should be back on the road with it tomorrow afternoon at the latest. Oh yeah, I also have to figure out why it's shaking around in it's mounts like crazy, too. Didn't used to do that...

    Anyone know where I can find the throttle mounted microswitch for the ST300? The kickdown is in great shape, but the throttle switch is broken. I should have one here in a while from buickfarm.com, but it never hurts to have a back up parts source.

  5. #5

    Cool 300 problems

    The shaking could be a fouled plug,crossed wires, broken motor mount? Mabey it was flooded and wouldnt start.Pull the plugs if their wet you can burn them clean with a propain torch.Carefully heat the electrode until it turns red.

  6. #6
    Thanks, spanky!! I have to add some thread to the throttle arm, and then cut off a little excess from it on the lathe. After that, I'm going through the usual tune-up procedures.

    I had this engine in and out of the car quite a few times over the course of a week last summer, due to a low oil pressure problem (bearings). Anyway, the mounts were fine then, but I plan on having a look at them this afternoon, anyway. My neighbor has an oil-change-type pit in his garage, so we're going to pull the car over there and have a look.

    I'll update later today as to the ultimate outcome...

  7. #7
    Well, everything seems to be OK, except that I think I have an air leak somewhere. The RPMs seem to be a bit on the high side (no tach, so it's all by ear), and the adjustment screw is backed out entirely. This doesn't surprise me, as I'm using a Holley carburetor on an adapter. So, I'll go through and tighten things up.

    In the meantime, after the engine has cooled a bit, I think I need to go through and check all of the bolts at the mounts, transmission, and exhaust pipes. The engine is moving around in there a lot, but wasn't before I parked it. Aside from the movement, I can hear kind of a knocking noise (DEFINITELY external) at lower RPMs, but it disappears at higher RPMs. Seems like something is getting hit somewhere that I can't see. If it was a rod knock, I'd hear it throughout the RPM band.

    The last problem that I'm having is an overheating issue. This was a problem before I R&R'd the heads and intake. When I pulled the cast iron heads, I noticed that the coolant holes in the block and the heads were pretty well plugged up with crud. I cleaned out the holes in the block the best that I could, and figured that was most of the problem. I intend to either recore or replace the radiator after I get the car running right. I did manage, however, to get the temp to stabilize at about 195 degrees before I shut it down a few hours ago. I just went and checked the gauge, and it's at 160 degrees.

    What kind of scared me about the overheating was the fact that it boiled over, and some coolant wound up on the manifold. The coolant then boiled off the manifold (!), and the temp gauge was reading over 240 degrees (the needle was pegged). I hit the fans, which did nothing to affect the temp, and then I shut it off. After it had cooled a bit, I started it up again and added water to the radiator and the overflow canister. This is when the temp stabilized.

    Anyway, thanks for reading...

  8. #8

    Cool

    Id start from scrach a vacume leak could cause a lean miss and the overheat?or it could of been air bound in the cooling system.when i change a thermostat in a customers car I drill a 1/8 hole in the flat part just incase it sticks it also helps when refilling the coolent because of the bypass

  9. #9
    I thought about the vacuum leak affecting the temp as well, but I couldn't find one. I sprayed all of the mating surfaces and the carb to manifold surfaces with quick start, but couldn't get the engine to stumble except when I sprayed it directly into the carb. Seems like it may be mostly new parts working themselves out, as the idle has stabilized somewhat. At least it start and runs.

    The hottest it got this afternoon was 220 degrees, so it's still too hot. But, like I said before, it was having cooling issues before all of this new work and all of these new parts. I'm thinking the radiator is the problem. I thought about the water pump, too, but not only was it replaced shortly before I parked the car, it's also definitely pumping. By the way, before I parked the car for what turned into six months, I drained the cooling system.

    If I can get the radiator shop down the street to do the job, then I'll remove the radiator and take it over there tomorrow (they come highly recommended from a few people that I know). If not, then I'll buy a new one from US Radiator, as they aren't too far from where I live. I'll be having the shop put in a four row core, or if they can't do it, then that's what I'll buy from US Radiator.

  10. #10

    Cool

    Did you check the timing? let me know what u find because I just put a 64 300 4 speed set-up in my 67.

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