Rebuild 231 or by 350

[Tom Gallagher]

[img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img] Hi Don

That Gm 3800 (231) is a Super Motor. I have the Supercharged Version in my 2000 Regal GSE. 240 hp and with slight modification I can get 300 hp. I get 30mpg on the highway 25 round town. I don't know if they make replacement motors for real wheel drives. Then again you can always upgrade to a Turbo Grand National Powerplant. They are making 231 Blocks to accomodate 1000 hp.
If You want a daily driver with fuel economy in mind you could rebuild or pick up a 3.8 Goodwrench Motor for RWD. That Motor was the standard engine for some Camaro's and Firebirds which were RWD. You will have to Shop around. Dealer/Distributors will vary in price as much as $500.00. I found the cheepest guy and he delivered the motor to my door for 1800. I now have 267,684 miles on that same motor. The Buick 231 V-6 was selected as one of the 10 best Engines of the 20 Century.
Let us know how You make -out. After all WE are all concerned with Resurecting Buicks. Many of US, Yours Truely are in the process of bringing bringing a Buick back to like after it was given up for dead. We don't want any Buicks living a past life as Ghosts, or Skeletons in a closet till our dying day. My '56 is called The Banshee, for just that reason.
Good Luck with Your Endeavor [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Tom Gallagher [img]graemlins/shield.gif[/img]

[Don's 77 Sky]

Tom, I appreciate your suggestions. Will my transmission bolt up the motors that you have suggested? If so that would be a great idea, fuel injection instead of carb, I like the idea or will I need/ or should I get the trans to go along with it.

[Tom Gallagher]

Hey Don,

I don't know What Type of Trans You have, but I sure you will have a few options. There are Vendors/Suppliers that made Trans Adaptors for Bellhousings for many Applications.
I will be the First to tell you that I'm to Totally versed on the Subject of Engine swopping, but Most any Alternative is possible to be Performed. What it comes down to is How much Money does it Cost and How much You can affort to spend. Then there is The Computer Compatability issues, which Fuel Injection would probably require.
That Facit I'm not real familiar with. I have a tough enough time operating This machine I'm writing on.(LOL) Fuel Injection and Computers and the Techknowledgy are far beyond My understanding and comprehension.
I don't want to sound like I'm brushing you off, but you probably may be able to get better answers on the Late Model Engines Forum of Buick.net Tech. I'm not totally versed on the Subject, and I certainly wouldn't want to steer you in the wrong direction. I know there are Members on Buicks.net who are knowledgeable and have Hands-On Experience on the Subject
I hope there are some other Members who can shed more favorable light on the subject, where You can get the correct and proper answers to your intregueing questions.

Tom Gallagher [img]graemlins/shield.gif[/img]

[Don's 77 Sky]

Tom I understand technology, but you are correct I didn't think of the computer, I will have to take that into consideration, Thanks!

Well you hit it though, how much am I willing or able to spend.

What I would like to do is something to improve the over all power/performance and try and keep the milage. I know its tuff to do but that is were I see this going.

I do appreciate your knowledge and suggestions keep them coming. And I will visit other parts of the site and hope I get the same friendly replies that you have given.

[Randal]

I've had my 77 Skylark 3.8 since '96 and have rebuild the motor once and considered swaps a number of times, currently I have the 3.8 with a 200r4 overdrive behind it for excellent mileage. Your stock trans should be the standard 200. When it come to rebuilding, make sure you know if you have the even fire or odd fire V6, noted by the spacing of the spark plug wires on the cap. There are more options for the even fire engine. Going with a fuel injected system in CA (I've researched it) means stricter emission testing at the smog stations, though in 2007 we shouldn't have to worry about it. Going with the 350 (or 455 )would just require the bigger engine passing the six cylinder emissions, piece o' cake with that car. I was a week away from putting a 455 in the car when I bought a 72 Centurion with a blown motor, go figure. But now I have a blown motor to rebuild [img]smile.gif[/img] just a crank shaft away.

[Randal]

Oh yeah, to note, putting the 200R4 in required no, I repeat NO modifications or anything, it was a straight swap, just have to ignore the shift indicator being slightly off, and I had the torque converter lock up modified to lock automatically in fourth gear.

[Don's 77 Sky]

Radal,

Fill me in what is the 3.8 out of and what is a 200R4, I appreciate the info on the possiblities with a fuel injected motor, that helps in that decision...won't be going there, I don't really want to deal with any smog issues...

[bluewhale13]

There are numerous mods you can make to your original 231 V6. Alot of the off road guys have been using this motor for years and making good power with it. Edlebrock offers a intake manifold for it that is a dual plane 4 barrel set up. quite a bit of the Buick 350 stuff will fit with little to no modification. Things like springs rockers, etc. Poston offers various cam kits for the 231, but you really have to watch the lift with any of the small Buick motors. Waht happens is that on the cam profile at full open on the valves you will usually run into spings binding where a numbers of coils will be crushed together. Comp Cams offers cams for this motor to that are matched to the correct springs and lifters. As with any motor a good balancing and blueprinting will do wonders for both the longetiivty and the durability of the motor. I can't stress enough though that you should definitely use a new front cover and a steel thrust plate for the oil pump when it is rebuilt. The original front cover usually takes a pretty good beating internally and most of the time will have deep scoring which all leads to lower than expected oil pressure and cavitation. As stated above the 200R4 is pretty much a direct bolt in. It's the only overdrive tranny that I know of that uses the BOP bolt pattern. Let me know if I can be of help in the parts dept. A carry alot of these parts in stock. [img]graemlins/shield.gif[/img]

[Randal]

The 3.8 is the original engine that came in the car in '77, mine is an odd fire, late '77 Skylarks and all '78 and newer 3.8's are even fire. The 200R4 is the designation of the Transmission, Turbo Hydramatic 200R4. Those came in a lot of cars from the 80's. I got mine out of an '83 Buick Lesabre, but they come in nearly all GM's cars from the mid 80's to the early 90's. I think only the Firebirds, Camaros and Trucks came with the larger 700R4, so looking in any other RWD GM car with overdrive would have one.

[Randal]

Oh yes, Update on the smog laws in CA, no longer is the rolling 30 year exemption in place, the details are still a little fuzzy but instead it looks like a rolling 30 years of a more lenient smogging, I think the test will be limited to gas cap and tail pipe test (which even for '77 is very broad), so all visual inspection is eliminated. But it would still be 2007 before the 1977 model year would qualify. Just thought I'd add that since I touched on the exemption earlier.