Brakes locking up on my '60 LeSabre

[Hobart]

Hi guys. Just got my '60 LeSabre ragtop yesterday - great shape, and I love the car. One problem though: I went to move it today, and I discovered that the brake lights are on (tail lights, not "dummy" light), and the brakes are locked. The brake pedal is up at normal height and will not drop down - hard as a rock. I loosened up the master from the booster, and it would roll again; which indicates to me that it must be the booster causing this. Sound right? Anyone run into this before? And, if I need to replace the booster, I wonder if I should pop for a dual-reservoir master and matching booster to convert. Any thoughts appreciated, thanks.

[willyswan]

I likely is your booster, and I agree it would be an excellent time to convert to a dual cylinder master. The 60 buick has the master cylinder piston integrated in the booster. They are an odd ball unit.

I recently replaced my 1960 LeSabre coupes booster and master with those from a 1968 LeSabre. It was a bolt-in kind of operation. The booster and master were $93 + $25 core. It is A1 CARDONE part #501104

While you are at it, I suggest you also take the time to replace/rebuild all of your wheel cylinders and replace the 3 brake lines. Putting new spring kits on all 4 corner would not hurt either.

68 Booster & Dual Master in 60 Buick

Booster Master Pics

[wildcat68]

Hobart,
There is a hole (very small) in the the top of the master that is a vent hole
If this becomes clogged,the brakes will become rock hard- just like you're describing
check it out

[Hobart]

wildcat68, thanks for the tip. I had actually broke the cap free, and it didn't seem to make a difference.

willyswan, great info there - I appreciate that. Yeah, I pulled the master off of the booster, and found out about that integrated system first hand - seems like a goofy set up to me, but I'm no engineer. I figure that I'll get the setup you described, I actually was rooting around at an online parts store and came up with that same master / booster combo and thought that would be a good choice - your advice cements that! I couldn't open up your booster installation pic, it just comes up blank - you could email it to me if you don't mind: lynchmobracing@yahoo.com .
I assume since you stayed drum/drum you didn't install any kind of a proportiopning valve, right? Just route one reservoir to the front and one to the back? And what did you do for a brake light switch (for the tail lights, not the dummy-lite)? I will go thru the whole system, too - got to do it right! Thanks to both of you, the help is much appreciated!

[wildcat68]

Hobart
Make sure when you do the dual- master conversion you use the prop valve for drum/drum
(i've done at least a dozen of these)
It is a prop valve and has a provision for if you loose one side, you wont loose all your fluid
Buick used these starting in 67
make sure you match up the prop valve to the diameter of the piston in your master
i/e 1 inch piston, prop valve off a car with a 1 inch piston
let me know if you have any other questions
buickguyjon1@sbcglobal.net

[willyswan]

Bill,

I stayed with the drum/drum. With drums on all four corners, you do not need a proportioning valve. I did just as you describe, I routed one line from the master cylinder to the front brakes and one to the back…I will probably hear different, but I don’t think it really matters which goes to which.

You will notice the feed line from your current master cylinder is 1/4-inch tubing and goes to a distribution block which has three 3/16-inch outlets...one feeds the rear brakes and the others each go to a front brake. I removed the feed line and filled that hole in the distribution block with a 1/4-inch inverted flare plug (Weatherhead #131x4). I then removed the line on the distribution block that feeds the rear brakes (carefully bending it away from the distribution block) and using an inverted flare union (Weatherhead #302x3), I spliced that line and routed it to the master cylinder.

To plumb the front brakes, I routed a line from the master cylinder to the 3/16-inch port on the distribution block that previously fed the rear brakes.

To hook up the brake light switch, you will need a “female branch T-fitting” (Weatherhead #652x33) that is 3/16-inch inverted flare on two sides and 1/8-inch pipe thread in the middle. Plumb this into one of your feed lines. The brake switch screws into the 1/8-inch pipe thread on the "tee". If you are careful where you locate the "tee", you will not have to modify your wiring harness.

For the flare nuts, make sure you use steel brake line nuts and not brass flare nuts. The brass nuts are prone to rounding off even with a tubing wrench. I put anti-seize on all the fitting threads taking care to only get it on the threads and not on the sealing surface which would contaminate the brake fluid.

The booster is a tight fit, but it will fit. No modifications are needed for attaching the brake pedal to the booster, and the firewall bolt pattern is the same. I had a slight interference with a butt-seam on my firewall that is below the booster. I took a hammer and brass punch and bent the seam down slightly to gain clearance.

You will note that the master cylinder has odd-ball threads on the outlets. If I remember correctly, one is 9/16-inch and the other is 5/8-inch. I had a kind person at the parts counter that really worked with me and I finally found the correct fittings from the Weatherhead catalog, but I don’t remember the part numbers. My suggestion is to buy these from Master Power Brakes as they are listed in their catalog.

You can down load the Weatherhead catalog (it's 11.5 MB) at: http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products...OV-MC001-E.pdf you can then order the fittings by their Weatherhead part number at your local NAPA store.

I sent a couple of picture via e-mail. If any of this is not clear, let me know and I will try to explain better.

Regards,
willyswan

[Hobart]

Thanks for all the great help guys, I really appreciate this! I'll keep you posted. Time to start getting part$.
Thanks again.

[Robert Hare]

Hobart, crack a fitting on the master cyl if fluid comes out under pressure its the master cyl if no or little fluid comes out thats not the problem it could be a collasped rubber brake hose not allowing the wheel cyl to release. chcak that by cracking bleeders on the front wheel cyl's or either rear cyl. good luck with your new ride

[Hobart]

Thanks again, guys. All this help has been great - willyswan especially. I've been accumulating parts, and at this point I've got the booster installed, and a trial-fit of the master while I fabricated the new lines. So far, so good. The master is back on the bench - bled & ready to go. I've got all four corners torn apart and cleaned, so tomorrow after work I'll put on the new wheel cylinders and start wrapping it up. I'll keep you guys posted. When I'm done, I'll probably start another post with a title referring specifically to the master/booster upgrade and link to this thread, so others will find it easier. Thanks, guys.

[Hobart]

All done! She actually stops nice and straight, too; I figured for sure I'd have to adjust the brakes a few times to get it right. Good pedal, everything works great. This was practically a straight bolt-in job. Thanks again to all for the advice above. willyswan, you da man!
By the way, if you guys haven't seen this '60 Lesabre link (courtesy of Todd), check it out:
http://hometown.aol.com/equipoise60/...khomepage.html
Thanks again, guys!