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Thread: 425 nailhead oil choice?

  1. #11
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    425 nailhead oil choice

    we could use a moderator for this thread.
    I believe the zinc guys won the day with great conviction.
    I try to take my 1966 Riv for a 1/2 hour workout once every two weeks - so don't put a lot of miles on it.
    I'LL change the oil every six months using 10w 40w diesel.
    Thanks everyone.

  2. #12
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    Engine oil

    Go to C.A.R. & Nailhead which is Centerville Auto Repair &Vintage Hot Rod. Its owned buy Russell Martin. He and his son are known national and internationally for building Nailheads. That's all they do everyday all day. Go to there website click on the menu Button scroll down to the oil section click on it and theirs a full article about it. Its the first thing he talks about is how important it is and how oil today has the lack of zync. Or you can always give him a call. Zync helps protect the whole engine bearings timing gears rocker arms along with the cam. 15w-40 is actually diesel oil. Its formulated for extreme pressure from the force of the high compression engine. And oil companies now have to start labeling there oil if its flat tappet safe due to failures and possible law suits now. I dnt take pictures of every motor and there failures but Im sure if you ask Russ he could surely share some.

  3. #13
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    <i>jaytee2014
    I believe the zinc guys won the day with great conviction.</i>

    *shrugs*

    conviction doesn't have much to do with it.

    i'm perfectly willing to accept that 322bnh MAY be able to provide examples of 'problems' caused by zinc / ZDDP, which are completely unrelated to emissions.

    i don't EXPECT that he will be able to do so, which is why i'm not researching any of it myself.

    and while i might be a shitty moderator, i do have mod rights ... so i'm already here?


    Bob with a capital "B" is the site owner. so if you've got a problem with me or one of the other volunteer mods, that's who you direct your complaint too.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  4. #14
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    425 nailhead oil choice

    OOPS! sorry Bob,
    I wasn't complaining or finding fault..just trying to make light of the fact that you guys have very strong opinions (which is a good thing) and if we were in a town meeting the moderator would have his handsfull.
    I am just an amateur mechanic looking for advice from you guys who have experience and knowledge.
    I think this site is terrific and appreciate the work that you are doing to make it great.
    Thanks for your efforts and keep up the good work.
    John

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob k. mando View Post
    <i>jaytee2014
    I believe the zinc guys won the day with great conviction.</i>

    *shrugs*

    conviction doesn't have much to do with it.

    i'm perfectly willing to accept that 322bnh MAY be able to provide examples of 'problems' caused by zinc / ZDDP, which are completely unrelated to emissions.

    i don't EXPECT that he will be able to do so, which is why i'm not researching any of it myself.

    and while i might be a shitty moderator, i do have mod rights ... so i'm already here?


    Bob with a capital "B" is the site owner. so if you've got a problem with me or one of the other volunteer mods, that's who you direct your complaint too.
    No problems with zinc; just that it is not the only thing to consider.
    Research? Here is a place to start: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com
    Read part of the materials and methods, then search your favorite oil for ranking (type Ctrl+f in a browser window to bring up a dialog box)
    This blog has been dismissed on other forums by zinc 'believers'...sorta like a doctor telling someone he has cancer and needs to stop smoking ("what do doctors know...puff, puff, puff")
    Machine shop? Thanks for your service and input! When I worked in a machine shop I had no skills and was relegated to tearing down all those neglected and abused engines...some from junk yards, many of which had cam/lifter wear as did highly modified engines with high lift cams and stiffer valve springs. Nails have long duration cams and relatively weak valve springs and are not subjected to that kind of stress. I wiped out a cam and lifters in a 322 after a machine shop installed shims under the outer valve springs the covered the recess for the inner valve springs = valve bind that no oil would prevent!
    Russ Martin? I buy lots of parts from him and thank him for his contribution to the hobby! But like all of us he is opinionated and I have caught some erroneous statement. Also don't take all of your advise from someone who sells parts.
    Nearly any oil will give good service with regular changes by responsible and intelligent owners.

  6. #16
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    Heres an example of lifter failure from (presumably!) a failure to add zinc. This is from my personal vehicle so I know it had 15k miles from 2007 to 2017 on the engine, with the cheapest modern oil I could find, no zinc additive, and questionable oil change intervals. Not a Buick nailhead but a quality flat tappet lifter nonetheless. Pictured beside it is a brand new lifter. the camshaft looked fine so it was an $20 fix to make up for years of not running expensive zinc additive.




  7. #17
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    the camshaft looked fine so it was an $20 fix to make up for years of not running expensive zinc additive.


    *scratches head*

    Rotella is usually one of the cheaper oils you can buy. most of it is sold in 2.5 gallon jugs or larger, because when you're dumping 7 gallons into a 15L diesel, doing it by the quart is just a waste of time.

    Tractor Supply currently has Rotella T4 in the 2.5gal on sale for $28.99 or $2.90 per qt. or, you could get something like Castrol GTX 5w-30 and pay $3.20 per qt at Walmart, if you get it in a 5qt jug. i think i'll just keep a partial jug of Rotella around to top the engine off with, you know?

    you could buy a normal oil + zinc additive, but why would you? the whole point of not having zinc is so you don't clog up the expensive catalytic convertor. if you add zinc to a no zinc oil ... you're eventually going to plug the cat up. so, what is the point of buying a no zinc oil that WE ARE NOT RECOMMENDING?



    322bnh
    Research?


    you know what i DO NOT see on that page?

    examples of failures caused by zinc in the formulation. which was the question i asked you to demonstrate.

    can EXCESSIVE zinc be a problem? i'm sure it can. after all, i don't think any engine is going to appreciate it much if you start trying to lubricate it with a zinc powder, no matter how finely it might be ground.

    but IF you follow the directions on the additive bottle THEN you're probably not going to wind up with the excessive zinc levels he's talking about. and, if you buy a diesel oil and don't add zinc to an oil that already has zinc in it, then you REALLY don't have to worry about it.

    i do observe him appealing to his own authority quite a bit, which is cute. that's how Ford wound up with the 6.0L engine blowing up left and right and the Triton popping spark plugs into the underside of the hood ... engineers who thought their 'best case scenario' numbers were the end all and be all of the calculations.


    "** This Blog now has over 415,000 “views” worldwide!! Far surpassing the incredible quarter of a million views milestone, and heading toward the amazing half a million views milestone, clearly shows how popular this Blog is all over the world."


    ummm, okay.

    world population is supposedly over 7 Beelyons.

    a large portion of his views are surely due to bots and spiders. and, of the humans, many of them will load the page multiple times. so let's be generous and assume that 350,000 discrete and individual people have eyeballed his blog page. and lets' further assume that every single one of those 350,000 people agrees with every single word he typed.

    350,000 / 7,000,000,000 == 0.00005 or .005% of the population of the planet has observed his web page.

    and this is "incredible" and "amazing" and "popular"?

    here are things i do NOT know:
    that there is a real person behind the '540 RAT' persona.
    that he holds any patents
    that he's an engineer
    that he has conducted any tests whatsoever
    that he has +400,000 page views
    that his area of engineering expertise has any bearing on the testing he says he's doing

    i DO KNOW that, by his own testimony, his blog isn't particularly amazing or popular. it seems an odd mischaracterization for him to make.

    you know, what with math and numbers being a major part of earning your engineering degree.

    the 'popularity' of his blog also doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the information contained there is accurate ... so why is he even appealing to it?
    Last edited by bob k. mando; 02-27-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 322bnh View Post
    No problems with zinc; just that it is not the only thing to consider.
    Research? Here is a place to start: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com
    Read part of the materials and methods, then search your favorite oil for ranking (type Ctrl+f in a browser window to bring up a dialog box)
    This blog has been dismissed on other forums by zinc 'believers'...sorta like a doctor telling someone he has cancer and needs to stop smoking ("what do doctors know...puff, puff, puff")
    Machine shop? Thanks for your service and input! When I worked in a machine shop I had no skills and was relegated to tearing down all those neglected and abused engines...some from junk yards, many of which had cam/lifter wear as did highly modified engines with high lift cams and stiffer valve springs. Nails have long duration cams and relatively weak valve springs and are not subjected to that kind of stress. I wiped out a cam and lifters in a 322 after a machine shop installed shims under the outer valve springs the covered the recess for the inner valve springs = valve bind that no oil would prevent!
    Russ Martin? I buy lots of parts from him and thank him for his contribution to the hobby! But like all of us he is opinionated and I have caught some erroneous statement. Also don't take all of your advise from someone who sells parts.
    Nearly any oil will give good service with regular changes by responsible and intelligent owners.
    That is quite the article. I have only skimmed it, (which took a while) and found it not only has a lot of info on oils, but other topics, like choosing a cam and Dynamic compression. All worth a read.


    WEBNOTE: When inserting an email in a posting, use the "smilie" @ so that web robots don't pick up your address and send you more junk mail!
    Members can be contacted by clicking on their "handle", but you are much better off to post to the thread!

  9. #19
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    425 nailhead oil choice

    Thank you, Bob, for researching this and thank you 322bnh for recommending it.
    I will follow up on it.

  10. #20
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    Engine Oil

    I have been using 10W-30 Valvoline plus 8 oz. of ZDDP zinc additive for at least 20 years in all of my Buicks. No problems.
    Airy Cat

    1954 41D
    1955 46R
    1956 63D
    1998 Jeep Wrangler
    2007 Corvette Coupe

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