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Thread: Timing cover seal (non-rope)

  1. #11
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    Pumpgears dont fit

    What I encountered was the gears that came out of my original cover did not fit the proform cover because of two things:

    1. The shaft of the the gear that is driven by the distributor is to large in diameter and will not slide into the opening and
    2. The actual gears are protruding from the oil pump housing and they should be flush. The pic below is the new proform cover that I painted. I think you can see the gear is about a quarter to 3/8" higher than the oil pump housing. My pic on my ipad is clear. Don't know why it uploaded funky.

    I got to thinking last night and wondered if the timing cover on my car now is wrong and somehow the proform is correct. I am the second owner and did find some suspect fixes through the years and would not be surprised if this cover is from some other year car. Don't know how to figure that out though.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #12
    Maybe the previous owner installed a high volume oil pump. They used a longer gear and extension on the cover. Did the gears fit in the old cover and can you see a plate that extends the cover in the area of the gear housing?
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  3. #13
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    Now I feel really stupid

    Seems the proform timing cover is the correct cover for my car and the old one I removed is the wrong cover. How did I figure that out? About 10 years ago i got a oil pump rebuild kit from napa. It didn't fit right as the gears were smaller than the housing so I took the old gears in the existing timing cover to napa and matched them up. Napa was very helpful getting the right gears for me. They told me to keep both sets of gears which I did. Fast forward to now, I assumed the proform timing cover was incorrect because the existing oil pump gears did not fit and the seal they sent did not fit either. Notified Amazon and Pro-Form that the new timing cover was bad.

    So earlier today I remembered those 10 year old oil pump gears from napa that were "wrong" and found them. They fit perfect in the new proform timing cover. So whomever had this car last put some other timing cover on it. So for now I am back in business.

    NAPA was right 10 years ago and it should have made me think about that timing cover then but sometimes I am a bit thick.

    Maybe there is a difference between a 400 and a 455 timing cover regarding oil pump gears cause everything else is correct. I don't know. Now I have to get hold of amazon and proform to apologize for getting them all dressed up with no place to go. Geezzzzzz.

    thanks for your help guys.

  4. #14
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    Just saw the post about the high volume oil pump.

    Could be Steve. I will check. I only see the piece on the timing cover and the one piece that the oil filter connects to but great thought.

  5. #15

    Timing cover seal (non-rope)



    The high performance pump with spacer and longer gears looks like the one in the picture above.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakadula51 View Post

    Maybe there is a difference between a 400 and a 455 timing cover regarding oil pump gears cause everything else is correct.
    Absolutely not. All 400-430-455 timing covers are exactly the same. The only difference is the timing scale, some go 0-8, some 0-12, that's it. You tried to fit the high volume/high pressure gears into the timing cover. There is a spacer that goes with that kit. You are way better off with the stock gears in a new cover. The HV/HP gears were a fix when new covers were not available. They put an excessive load on the cam, chain, and front cam bearing especially when the oil is cold/thick and you race the engine.

    Make sure you set the internal clearances inside the pump (end clearance). See my post in this thread,

    https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...-from-oil-pump

    All Buick oil pumps are set up this way. Setting the end clearance to .002 will maximize hot idle oil pressure.
    Larry

    1970 GS455 Stage1 Race weight 4025 lbs.
    TSP 470, 602 HP, 589 TQ
    MT headers, Gear Vendors Overdrive
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    1998 Riviera SC3800

  7. #17
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    Thumbs up You guys nailed it

    I did have a plate on the oil pump. I have heard of external oil pumps but never a plate to make a high vomume oil pump. Too bad I didn't know that a few years ago when I pulled the motor to freshen up all seals and gaskets. Missed that one. I think I now know where that pesky little leak was.

    Thanks Steve and Larry. Nothing like talking with experienced Buick people. I will not use the old plate on the new cover as Larry suggested and check for the clearance as well. Shims from T/A if necessary.

    Thanks again.
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  8. #18
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    Pictures of a proper rope seal install?

    Does anyone have pictures of the rope seal and the way it fits into the groove of the round metal piece and then into the timing cover? Something just doesn't look right on mine and I am worried i installed it wrong.

    I have exhausted the internet and cannot find anything.

    Thanks.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakadula51 View Post
    Does anyone have pictures of the rope seal and the way it fits into the groove of the round metal piece and then into the timing cover? Something just doesn't look right on mine and I am worried i installed it wrong.

    I have exhausted the internet and cannot find anything.

    Thanks.
    I don't think anyone uses the rope seal any more. The new covers come with a neoprene seal. TA performance sells the front seal here,

    http://www.taperformance.com/proddet...prod=TA%5F1514

    The National part # is 450446.

    https://www.amazon.com/National-Oil-.../dp/B001OD7HF8

    An old cover may need to be modified a bit to take the seal.
    Larry

    1970 GS455 Stage1 Race weight 4025 lbs.
    TSP 470, 602 HP, 589 TQ
    MT headers, Gear Vendors Overdrive
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    1998 Riviera SC3800

  10. #20
    The seals Larry listed above are the easiest and least leak prone method available for sealing the cover.

    The procedure for installing the the rope seal is in the 67 manual available in our reference section on the site if you are determined to use it. The seal expander used in the procedure is not going to be readily available. I have used oil and a hammer handle multiple times in the past to expand the a rope seal enough to fit the dampner. It is a time consuming process if you want it not to leak. Make sure the point where the seal joins is on the top side of the cover. Even done correctly, the rope seal will begin leaking long before the neoprene seals ever will.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

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