Question about 55 Buick Master Cylinder

[My55buick]

Hey guys,
For years Ive been putting off the restoration of my 55 Buick Special because the brakes worked so miserably. I always just imagined my self crashing it right after getting all the body work done. Whenever I have free time I look up ways to change out the Master Cylinder and Brake booster so I can put discs up front and feel safe driving the car. I dont like the idea of cutting up the firewall to put a master cylinder in and doing away with the floor mount pedal, I love every aspect of the look of the car and dont want to change appearances. I was on google for about 3 hours last night when I came across a post on the Olds forum, apparently the 55 Olds has a floor mount master and the pedal coming through the floor. The guy on the Olds forum first read about the Packard conversion that I also read which got me thinking that there was hope. The only draw back was you had to mount a bracket to the floor board and you could see it. Then The guys on the Olds forum tried re-engineering everything to get a modern booster and master in there with a 4:1 ratio floor mount pedal, when he was done he found out it didnt work. Then for the hell of it he reinstalled the orignal pedal setup which is 1:1 like ours and mounted the modern booster and master on it and the car stops amazing. So I think I may have found a solution, I just wanted to run it by you guys first in case someone else has tried. If it works I may order my parts tonight... Heres a link to everything he did tell me what you guys think.

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...1955-olds.html

[telriv]

Years ago I upgraded the brakes on my '55 Special. At the time double master cylinders were fairly new & disc brakes were just coming out & but becoming more popular. I used the brakes from a '63 Riviera including the aluminum drums which I used on all four wheels. Since I'm a mechanic by trade & is also my hobby I was able to do this with very LITTLE machining. The brakes were so good I could stop the car from 100+ MPH with no problems.
Using one finger to type would take me days to explain. Better a phone call. My home is in Ct. so keep that in mind when trying to call & NOT after 9PM.

[jacob]

As someone who daily drives a 56 Buick, I know what you mean about crappy brakes. I have a factory power set up and it leaves a lot to be desired. currently I'm working on making a bolt in, firewall mounted booster set up. It involves replacing the firewall air box, and new under dash linkage and a new brake pedal. I am using CAD programing and a plasma table to make this. If all goes well I hope to have it on the market end of summer. I know the 1955 Buick dash is different, but I believe the firewall is the same.

No matter what you do, I recommend replacing all 3 of the rubber lines, adjust your drum brakes (they're not self adjusting so this is huge), and add a residual pressure valve. This will give you such a better pedal feel. It won't stop like a new car, but it helps.


Anyways, my goal is to have it 100% bolt in, no cutting required brake booster conversion kit that looks and fits as you would expect a later 60's setup to fit. Here are some pictures of what I have so far:

The factory firewall, with the air box / water drain that I would be replacing:



CAD (computer aided design) plate. It will be 3 dimensional later so it won't require cutting of the water tray on the firewall.



A start to the new firewall box. It will be made out of sturdy plate metal. It's sitting on top of the original box:




I'll keep you updated, but I plan on working on it this week.

[My55buick]

Thats awesome I wish you a lot of luck with it. I plan to daily drive mine also, so its good to hear from someone who understands my mind set. Most of the time people just say its a 50s car accept its limitations. I was looking at your pictures and Im curious did you build an A/C set up too?

Im debating on trying to buy a master and booster and just bolt it in like the guy did, and see how well it works. Worst case scenario I could always use it on something else.

As for my car, it sat from 1972. When I got it the brakes actually still worked, just the return spring for the brake pedal broke.But I changed out the wheel cylinders and hoses for safety sake. Replaced the old rear shoes, scuffed and re adjusted the fronts. Then I put on a new set of tires and took it for a ride. Im not great at setting points so it ran like crap after the tune up. My first test drive was at 3 am when no one was around, I took it up and down the street a few times to make sure it seemed safe. Then floored it, it was slow but I got it above 50 and attempted stopping, its really scary to stop this thing. I immediately though of all those old drivers ed movies. I feel like dragging my feet would do a better job. Im putting the pedal almost to the floor and it just like chirps the tires and slows to a stop. Is that normal for these cars? In my area there's a ton of traffic and due to psychotic drivers there are many opportunities for panic stops so after that drive I decided I was going to put some discs on it or just give up and sell it.

[telriv]

One of the things Buick was noted for were their brakes. With aluminum drums & more lining area you won't even need power brakes. You could get rid of the troublesome power booster. I had manual brakes & if I wanted I could lock up all 4 at 80+. What's really sorely needed is anti-lock, but try adapting that to an older 40's, 50's 60's, 70's car.
Again, just my thoughts.

[firstofeight]

I am content with the brakes on my '50 Buick. 1955's should be as good or better. I believe today's driving habits contribute to discontent with brakes on older cars.

Ben

[My55buick]

Tom,
I actually really did consider the aluminum drums, they sound like a fantastic idea. You get a wider brake shoe and a nice aluminum drum to help dissipate the heat. I did the research a while back and I think Buick made them from like 57-64 but I maybe wrong. When I started searching for them I found out that the hot rod guys namely the ones with T Buckets really drove the prices up. A pair of used drums was over $100 and they still had to be turned and then you had to worry there would be enough meat left to turn. I started thinking about it and it could get pretty expensive fast, plus no one seems to make a real Buick aluminum drum new, most that I found were conversion drums, for hot rods. Its like every road I go down leads me back to something like the Scarebird Conversion. I like the idea of regular off the shelf easy to get 70s GM parts.

I agree with you it would be great to get ABS onto a vintage car of any kind. But I will say this most 70s cars had decent enough brakes to make me feel safe driving them, Im going to be 31 in a couple months and all Ive been driving since I got my permit is 60s and 70s cars. If I could get that kind of braking out of my Buick I would be so happy.

The fact that you can lock the wheels up at around 80 with out any issue makes me wonder more about my car. My car doesnt seem to have a bad master cylinder but it is over 60 years old, is it possible thats why it stops like crap? I dont see any leaks coming from the seam where the master meets the booster, fluid level doesnt seem to be dropping, if I keep my foot on the pedal it doesnt slowly creep to the floor, when I replaced the wheel cylinders and hoses I bled it out completely so it has nice fresh fluid all throughout the system, and I adjusted all the shoes so theres some drag on the drums, basically you spin the wheel and it turns like 1.5 turns after you let go. I feel like I have plenty of assistance from the treadlevac its very easy to push. Almost easier than a modern car. But I have to slam the brake to the floor to get any real braking action out of it. I could always pull the master cylinder and send it out to be rebuilt just to see, I don't think its that expensive. What do you guys think?

[Bob]

fwiw (for what it's worth), I am very happy with my aluminum drums on my '67. I did add a power booster. I wonder if you should have a good look at you brakes and make sure the shoes are on correctly, primaries on the front. The other possibility which I can not comment on is the type of shoe. Asbestos was great, but no longer easy to find. Perhaps a new set of shoes might help.

[telriv]

We are a friendly group here. 1st. off it would be great if we had at least a 1st. name & a location. You never know there may be a member on one of the boards close buy that can help. The aluminum drums were available from '58-'70. At 1st. in 45 fins up until '65 then in 90 fin through '70. Yes, us Hot Rod guys & Roundy-Round guys used them up at a FAST rate because their braking power was just as good if not better than discs. The BIGGEST advantage was MUCH less un-sprung weight. You would be going from 12"x2" & 12"x 1 3/4" to 2 1/4" all the way around. If you look hard enough & deal with someone honest you could find what your looking for. The '66-'70's would be easier to find as the "LOOK" is not what's wanted. When I sold any drums I would ALWAYS cut them before shipping & mark the oversize. They can go to 12.090". Of course I got MORE than $100.00 a pair because of the popularity & demand. As mentioned the asbestos has been removed from ALL brakes today. Asbestos was one of the contributing factors in the QUALITY & STOPPING power. That being said if you search you could find some of the old GOOD shoes shoes. PARTSRPARTS I'm pretty sure still has some. Years ago I bought semi-metallic linings for my Riv. & never used them. Although I would like to sell them they would not be a good match for your application. The tredle-vac systems, although a good idea back in the day left ALOT to be desired. My '55 Special had manual brakes. It DIDN'T need power. I know you're going for the BANG for the buck, but you still would have to dump the tredle-vac. Also mentioned. I can't tell you how many brake shoes are put on WRONG. Primaries front is the LITTLE shoe. Secondary rear is the BIGGER shoe. MAYBE???? Would definitely cause what your talking about. The old Buick's had so much "Meat" on the drums you could cut them a 1/4" & install 1/4" oversize linings on them when they were available back in the day.


Tom T.

[My55buick]

Sorry about that, I didnt realize I never did an introduction. My name is Anthony Im from Paramus NJ. Ive been into cars since I was 12 my dad taught me how to do brakes, oil changes, and tune ups, from there I got a job at a gas station at 14 and more or less apprenticed there. I rebuilt my first engine at 16, which still runs today so Im proud of that. Then I got tired of working for the local gas stations and mom and pop shops, mostly because they always seemed to have "money problems" on pay day. But I did learn a lot working there then I went to Lincoln Tech and got a full automotive education, and I made friends with one of my teachers who sold me the car. His neighbor bought it new in 1955, and sold it when he backed up one day and knocked the drivers side trim off by skimming the garage door. He was in his 80s and he said I've backed out of this garage since I was a kid, this must be a sign I cant drive anymore. Then he sold it to my teachers uncle, who then sold it to my teacher. He drove it for a few years and loved it but parked it in 73 when he bought a new Lincoln Mark IV. The nice part is I know all the history of the car, and when I got it I actually had to change a lot of parts that were from 1955, and If I remember right it only has like 45k miles on it. Its apparently an early 55 because some parts match 54. Such as the fuel pump and the Stromberg Aerotype 2 barrel. Later 55s had a different fuel pump and a carter 2 barrel.

Whats so bad about the treadle vac? With the exception of my 4 wheel manual disc 65 Mustang, all my experience is really with Discs but I always thought it was easier to stop with power brakes? The Mustang stopped ok but took a decent amount of pedal effort, so I wasnt crazy about it, and am mid way through a power disc conversion. But tell me what you think, its nice to learn from someone else who knows more.