opinions wanted

[corkatoa]

My 87 turbo block is at the machinists (see crank post), he says it looks like it needs nothing more than a cleaning and will get new bearings and rings.


But.....


It is apart and with future mods in mind, what would be the recommendations to do at this time? I have been reading threads at other sites and I am absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of mods for these engines. I have built a large number of v8's in my day, including a few LS engines last couple years.. I do my own assembly usually, this is the first shortblock I am having someone else put together.






My questions are this: if I keep stock pistons (they seem to be in great condition), what camshaft should I go with? Should I get the engine balanced? I have 42lb injectors, an ecm extender chip(?), upgraded fuel pump and an aftermarket throttle body/plenum. Also have a LS1 MAF with translator. Have stock intercooler to use.
Just want to put together a strong motor for the future. Have no set goals on performance, but would like a starting point on the shortblock. More of a mind for a touring car than a drag car.
Will worry about heads after block is done, but they look like new. (will port them for sure, as I don't let a head go unported in my world)
Have been told about several oil system mods, still researching them.
thanks in advance for input.

[bob k. mando]

are you running turbo? you don't mention it.

if trying to go normally aspirated, take a look at the circle track v6 articles. the CT boys were pulling near SBC horsepower levels out of a Buick with a LOT less engine weight, made for a bad *** late model.

the downfall of the v6 in circle track was that it takes more money to build it to those power levels than a comparable v8 ( 100 extra cubes, duh ) and they had to spin so much rpm that they didn't last all that well.

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l...aker_buick.php

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l...for_racing.php

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../v6_stage2.php

[corkatoa]

Sorry. Is going into a grand national. It is the crank Bob is working on in the other post in this section.

[carmantx]

Just build it strong. Make sure crank is good, rods resized. Yes, balance it! Mild port on heads would be fine. Make sure block deck is done, and heads are decked to be flat. Use ARP bolts to put it all together.
we got a custom cam built.

Now, for your power desired, get the right turbo.

[corkatoa]

Have been overwhelmed with tips a the turbo buick site. Come here for some clarity.

Here are some of the main tips:

-oil passage work
-oil pump mods
-head porting (porting of all intake components basically)
-balancing
-use ARP studs and rod bolts
-replace center main caps with steel aftermarket ("While you have the block at the machine shop, you might consider replacing the 2 center caps w/steel and using arp studs for re-assembly. It's just added security because the cranks can flex under detonation")

Seems like all good advice, but there are counterpoints to the last two. Supposedly ARP head fasteners don't stretch as readily as stock and have more gasket failures as a result. Many turbo owners report using stock head bolts with some very high boost w/o issues. I have used ARP stud kits a few times over the years without issue, but never on a turbo engine. Not going to boost big numbers, so I may stick with stock bolts.
For the rods, ARP doesnt list a kit, so I guess that solves that.

The center cap replacement would then requiring line boring I assume. Again, not sure I am looking for huge HP numbers to require more than the stock caps. But it is apart...

[telriv]

Forged pistons are ALWAYS an up grade.

[corkatoa]

Forged pistons are ALWAYS an up grade.

If I need pistons, they will be forged. Mine are low mile and I am only shooting for around 400-450hp and no more than 17pounds of boost. the stock engine can withstand 600hp and low 20's boost forever, so I am concentrating on the little (read: cheaper) things. Like maybe a cam and cam bearing upgrade to something like this:

"Another Buick oiling problem is keeping the small cam journals alive. TA offers hardened, wider, dual-feed/dual-groove, cam bearings (left). One-hole factory bearings (right) can starve the bottom half of the bearing, especially with higher spring pressure. TA’s groove and extra holes provide 360-degree oiling."

Comp Buick V6 Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
Custom Buick V6 Basic PN	69-000-8 (Spec - 22127312)
Core No.	C99
Grind No.	BV69 30135S / 3014S HR 113.0
Vale lift, 1.55:1 rockers (intake/exhaust)	0.548/0.553 inches
Duration at 0.050 (intake/exhaust)	214/218 degrees
Lobe-separation angle	113.0 degrees
Intake centerline (installed)	111.0 degrees

[firstofeight]

Forged pistons are ALWAYS an up grade.

Hey, Tom, I have heard this before. Not doubting, but can you tell us WHY? Inquiring minds need to know.

Ben

[telriv]

My opinion. Stock cast pistons were designed to be quite, don't expand as much, so can be run with tighter tolerances. They are adequate for probably 85-90% of the cars on the road. The majority of the higher performance cars of today have FORGED pistons & a "Pent-Roof" combustion chamber, like the ole "Nails". Depending on the material, 4032 or 2618, can tolerate higher HP & boost levels. 4032 has a higher silicone content, ( not as much as hype rs which make them brittle) so is suitable for 600HP+. Can tolerate even higher HP levels with PROPER tuning, as much as 800-1000HP. Don't require as much wall clearance because expansion is held down somewhat by the silicone content which as makes them more slippery & they will last longer usually. This in & of itself makes them MUCH more desirable than cast or 2618 material. 2618 is really for racing but can be used on the street if you can put up with piston slap when cold, but less when hot. They are more flexible than 4032 but will NOT last as long. Remember, the more a piston wall clearances the more the piston rocks in the bore so the less a rebuild will last.
Again, there are just my opinions. Do your research.


Tom T.

[firstofeight]

Thanks, Tom
I THINK I understand.

Ben