Wacky signal flasher 6V

[suntreemcanic]

When you get the ground problem figured out it looks to me like you also have a low voltage problem maybe from a week battery. A reading of 4.5 volts is to low. With a fully charged 6 volt battery when the engine is running you should have 6.5 volts to run your flasher, with the engine off you still should have a minimum of 5.5 volts for the flasher to work effectively. I know you have to turn on the ignition switch to run the flasher and that is a big drain on a 6 volt system. Hook up a battery charger to the battery and then try your flasher, that will give you an indication how the system will work when the engine is running and you will not have to smell the fumes or waste gas. If you really want to make life easier convert to 12 volts.

[krinkov58]

Tom, I had never heard of "backfeeding"...when it gets dark tonight I'm going to turn on the dash lights and see if that does happen and report back. The reading of 4.5 was as high as my voltmeter got but the flashes were pretty fast so I don't know if that reading was because my digital meter couldn't keep up. The park lights read around 6.3V but granted are on a complete separate circuit. Maybe I can use a jumper wire in the flasher's socket and see what a steady voltage reads at the signal filament's contact in the housing. I'll put the battery on the tender now and see how everything goes later tonight. Thanks all for your input! Trying to get this car ready for an inspection sticker this spring...the snow has to melt first though so I have some time.

[krinkov58]

Okay so here's what I did. With the charger taken off of the battery, it read 6.55V at the battery terminals. I put the Tung-Sol flasher in and focused on the right park/directional socket since it was still in it's dagmar and grounded. The park lights read 5.67V at the junction terminal and 5.64V at the socket. With the right signal engaged and park lights off, the signal portion of the socket read max 4.68V with a similar reading at the junction terminal. The rear right signal socket read a very steady 6.15V. With the flasher removed and a jumper wire installed at the flasher socket on the fuse panel, the front signal read 5.80V at the socket. I put the charger back on the battery for an hour and kept in on while I tested some more. Got 6.16V at the junction terminal and 6.11V at the socket for the park lights. With the Tung-Sol flasher installed, I got 5.32V at the front signal socket and 6.40V at the rear. Swapping the Tung-Sol flasher out for the Taiwan-made one, I got 6.39 at the front signal socket and 5.94V at the rear signal socket (the Taiwan one did always flash normally but never engaged the dash indicator lamps). Removing the flasher again and using a jump wire at it's socket on the fuse panel, I got 5.99V at the rear signal socket and then the fuse for the signal circuit blew as soon as I started testing the front socket.
The dash lights did not flash for me when I signaled a left turn (using the ungrounded signal lamp), but oddly the right direction flashed dimly this time...whether it had done this previously and I just had not noticed, I don't know. But something I did notice while I was installing the jumper wire in the flasher socket was that one of the female "tongs" which holds a male terminal on the flasher can is pushed fairly far down in it's mount (see photo). So I don't know how well it's making a contact--had to stick the spade terminal of the jumper wire I made pretty far down into it to make a contact.

[krinkov58]

UPDATE: Alright, so his afternoon I resolved to figure this out. Spent a long time going through wiring, and like I said the wiring outside of the firewall wasn't terrible but not perfect. So a little electricians tape here and there where the braiding was frayed from a wire clip etc. and then made sure all connections were tight. Same result, over and over. Checked out that set of terminal "tongs" on the flasher socket...turns out they had been pretty much pushed out of their holder and were only visible in the photo I posted because of wire tension...when the flasher connection was inserted it would push it down until it was pinned against something so there was barely a connection being made. Fixed that, and got much better voltage at the front signal socket. Over 6V. Tried it with the Tung-Sol and Taiwan flashers...SAME THING. So I started getting ticked off and usually when that happens I walk away from the project for a while. Got on the internet and with a little searching found a thread in a Packard forum about a cheap 535 flasher a guy got from CarQuest and it wasn't flashing his dash indicators either. Apparently not an unheard-of issue; Tom/telriv you called it right on the money there. So I tossed the crummy Taiwan flasher and used a set of snips to make cuts around the crimped rim of the Tung-Sol flasher, peeled it back like a flower, and pulled the flasher out of the can. A little trial and error with the arm that flashes the dash indicators (I can post pics and a description of what I did if anybody wants) and everything worked perfectly. So yay me.
I'm going to post a pic I stole from the Packard forum which shows the difference between the old and new cheapie flashers.

[telriv]

Glad I was of some help. Electrical issues can be challenging. When the problem is resolved a feeling of satisfaction comes over you. A GOOD FEELING. Many times using the KISS principal (keep it simple stupid) applies in MANY situations!!!! You were driving yourself crazy (as well as MANY others) & doing diagnostics BEFORE the simple things. This can throw you completely off,as it did, getting into the deeper diagnostics before doing the basic things 1st. Very happy/glad it worked out for you.
I usually try & repair the original parts/pieces BEFORE replacing with the junk that's made today. After doing something/replacing parts MANY times over & over again you start to think, is it just me???? & questioning your own abilities. Even the quality parts available today are JUNK!!!!!
As an example on a customers Civic. The right rear window motor stopped working. Can't replace just the motor but the whole regulator assembly. Called around to find the best price on a quality replacement part. Finally settled on Dorman over Honda. Ordered & replaced. Two days later not working again. Ordered another & installed. One month later stopped working. At this point you think that there has to be something else wrong &/or doubting your diagnostic capabilities. To check window switches, etc. you MUST remove the door panels. Much work in itself. Checking ALL the switches, including the Master switch on the drivers panel, as a defective Master could be causing ALL the problems. No such luck in this case. Ordered another. Installed, not a thought was put into checking operation before completion, just assembled. Now the window went up in the down position & down in the up position. Could have been fixed easily by swapping the wires before installing door panel to complete the job at hand. Dumb move on my part, hadn't been had a problem before, this is what happens when you ASSUME. At this point the customer was waiting & said she could put up with that & felt sorry for me as I have SSSSOOOO much time into this at N/C to her. Four months later this assembly failed. HAD to get a Honda part. Been working fine for three years now. How much time & money was spent on my part, not counting the time the customer was inconvenienced as well as myself???? How do I charge for this??? It's not her fault as neither is it mine. Put in a labor claim & after much MORE time was wasted the labor claim was denied as this is an electrical part even though we ALL know it was a manufacturing fault.
Again, just my thoughts.


Tom T.

[krinkov58]

I hear what you're saying, believe me. My first deduction was bad flasher...which is why I bought the cheap replacement one. What completely threw me off is when the first flasher didn't work right, and then the second flasher didn't work right; then the issue probably was not the flashers themselves. Too much of a coincidence. It wasn't until all other options were exhausted that I had to look at the fact that however improbable it might be--both flashers were screwed up. Luckily I happened across this Packard guy going through something similar on a Packard web board...apparently the indicator circuit in these modern replacement flashers don't operate like the headlight circuit; they use crummy transistors or something. A little bending inside the original flasher can and everything works beautifully. Lesson learned. Hopefully people can learn from my mistakes! Ha at least I do get out there and try though.

[darcus]

I know this is an old thread but just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I spent hours tracing an electrical problem that did not exist! Used a 535 Napa made in Taiwan flasher. In fact two of them thinking I may have had a bad one. Never dawned on me that it would work for the exterior signals and not the interior directional indicators. Read this thread then ordered me a old tung-sol made by Wagner. Problem solved. Hours under the dash for nothing. My back and neck thank you! Ordered six more for $23.00 including shipping. Hopefully lifetime supply