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Thread: Ceramic Coatings

  1. #11
    Yes, the "Star Wars" air cleaner forces me to use under hood air for my intake. I want some sort of originality, so cold air is not possible for cosmetic reasons. I am running a 4 core aluminum rad from alumitec. It is an original appearing radiator.

    I believe, if you are building the heat you must disperse it, if when I instal the 455, in turn build more heat, because the configuration is identical to the 400, it will almost certainly be dispersed through the radiator if the engine is running cool. If it is not dispersed through the radiator, I would expect it would be dispersed through through block radiation and ?. Because the radiator air flows through the engine compartment, it could increase the under hood temperatures.

    I must keep the engine cool to be happy, so if I am so foolish as to instal headers, I believe I should try to keep heat in them. Then with all this "Ceramic" stuff, I started to think (woops, usually a mistake), that it might be a good idea to coat the combustion chambers and exhaust runners, maybe even the pistons to keep the heat in the exhaust where it might reduce the concern for cooling.

    My horsepower aspirations are not too high. I am currently running a "stock" motor with about a 215 duration cam, and probably won't increase the cam to more than 220 with the 455. A set of heads with some port work, combustion chamber work and stage one valves, a little work on the intake manifold, balancing and attention to specs, is about it. I would love to change out the carb, but probably won't because of the air cleaner and hood clearance problems that will certainly result. So given that the motor was supposed to have 345 hp, when done, somewhere over 400 may be about what it will have, and probably not over 450, but that's guesswork. I probably won't go over 5500 rpm.

    Thanks for your input!


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  2. #12
    OK, I crawled out from under the house fixing (temporarily) the water leak at the solder joint in the copper pipe with a couple of hose clamps and a piece of rubber ( fun, fun, fun, ! ).

    Revisiting me cruising down the interstate in 100 degree heat. Because I am doing a steady job, cruising on a hot day using 150HP ? , I am building a set amount of heat which must be dispersed (though cooling system, radiation, and exhaust ). The amount of heat may not change regardless of which motor I have because the job is the same. If I can keep more heat in the combustion chamber and push it out through the exhaust, I don't need to disperse it through the cooling system.

    If all I was to do, is coat the radiator ( no other coatings ), if the radiator is dispersing the heat generated now, even if it is able to disperse it faster with a coating, it should be the same amount of heat, the radiator will just have a little more cool water in reserve.

    Get out your drill and drill some holes


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yes, the "Star Wars" air cleaner forces me to use under hood air for my intake. I want some sort of originality, so cold air is not possible for cosmetic reasons. I am running a 4 core aluminum rad from alumitec. It is an original appearing radiator.

    I believe, if you are building the heat you must disperse it, if when I instal the 455, in turn build more heat, because the configuration is identical to the 400, it will almost certainly be dispersed through the radiator if the engine is running cool. If it is not dispersed through the radiator, I would expect it would be dispersed through through block radiation and ?. Because the radiator air flows through the engine compartment, it could increase the under hood temperatures.

    I must keep the engine cool to be happy, so if I am so foolish as to instal headers, I believe I should try to keep heat in them. Then with all this "Ceramic" stuff, I started to think (woops, usually a mistake), that it might be a good idea to coat the combustion chambers and exhaust runners, maybe even the pistons to keep the heat in the exhaust where it might reduce the concern for cooling.

    My horsepower aspirations are not too high. I am currently running a "stock" motor with about a 215 duration cam, and probably won't increase the cam to more than 220 with the 455. A set of heads with some port work, combustion chamber work and stage one valves, a little work on the intake manifold, balancing and attention to specs, is about it. I would love to change out the carb, but probably won't because of the air cleaner and hood clearance problems that will certainly result. So given that the motor was supposed to have 345 hp, when done, somewhere over 400 may be about what it will have, and probably not over 450, but that's guesswork. I probably won't go over 5500 rpm.

    Thanks for your input!




    Understood, but as I said earlier, the only problem you appear to be having is a "cooling" problem. So therefore you need to address those components, i.e. radiator, water pump, fan and thermostat strategy. The fact that you're running an aftermarket 4 core aluminum radiator and having trouble cooling such a mild engine sticks out as a HUGE problem. Trying to resolve your cooling issue by reducing "under-hood" temps seems a bit odd and no where near the root cause of your problem. Your engine IS the source of the heat i.e. block, heads, exh manifolds, etc, etc. Whether you have ZERO under-hood heat or 1000F degrees of under-hood heat, your cooling systems needs to be able to handle it. Case in point, throw a stone and hit any single or twin turbo car or truck they're experiencing EXCESSIVE under-hood temps from the turbos and associated components but still able to maintain appropriate coolant temps......

    As for a more efficient radiator causing a problem, that seems a bit far fetched. Do you really think that warm air (cooler than engine components) flowing past the rad into the under hood area is going to do anything to further heat up your cast iron block / heads and manifolds? The only problem I can see with this is increased IAT's, which again don't seem to be an issue.

    Problems that would generally arise from excessive under-hood heat are intake air issues, fuel temp / vapor lock issues, burnt plug wires / electronics concerns. Don't get me wrong, obviously everyone seeks to reduce under-hood temps usually with the number one concern of reducing intake temps. Since you're not experiencing these issues I would be looking at cooling improvements....
    Last edited by CCPcoatings; 08-15-2014 at 04:21 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    OK, I crawled out from under the house fixing (temporarily) the water leak at the solder joint in the copper pipe with a couple of hose clamps and a piece of rubber ( fun, fun, fun, ! ).

    Revisiting me cruising down the interstate in 100 degree heat. Because I am doing a steady job, cruising on a hot day using 150HP ? , I am building a set amount of heat which must be dispersed (though cooling system, radiation, and exhaust ). The amount of heat may not change regardless of which motor I have because the job is the same. If I can keep more heat in the combustion chamber and push it out through the exhaust, I don't need to disperse it through the cooling system.

    If all I was to do, is coat the radiator ( no other coatings ), if the radiator is dispersing the heat generated now, even if it is able to disperse it faster with a coating, it should be the same amount of heat, the radiator will just have a little more cool water in reserve.

    Get out your drill and drill some holes
    Sure coating the pistons and combustion chambers will certainly put more heat out the exhaust system and likely have some minimal effect on reducing engine temps.

    What I can't quite understand is that you have an engine making approximately 220HP and you feel you need to go to such extremes to try and cool the engine when we see normally aspirated, turbo charged and supercharged engines making 500HP -2000HP + not having a cooling issue or even contemplating coating heads or radiators.... Not saying it won't make any improvements, just suggesting its a long way to go about making cooling improvements...

    We've been around coatings for 15+ years. In that time we've never been asked to coat a radiator and only done two sets of heads. Those were for HP improvements and nothing to do with cooling.

  5. #15
    the "Star Wars" air cleaner forces me to use under hood air for my intake. I want some sort of originality, so cold air is not possible for cosmetic reasons.



    you car actually is a 67?

    so i suppose there's absolutely no chance that a 68-72 Stage 1 hood would fit on your car?

    http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/70Stg.htm

    http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/70Stg64.JPG




    http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/70Stg65.JPG




    obviously, trying to rig up a contraption to move the snorkel hoses from air cleaner mount to under hood mount ( because i don't see any way to mount it on a Star Wars ) would be pretty difficult.

    but where there's a will there's a way!

    alternatively, you could mount the 68-72 air cleaner assembly while you're cruising and swap in the Star Wars when you're showing.


    oh, hey, 1967 GS nostril style hood:

    http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Buick...%2019a_jpg.jpg





    something else that could help with under hood temps would be to make the 'gill slits' functional.






    I believe, if you are building the heat you must disperse it


    true. assuming no detonation due to excessive IAT you're going to be generating a given 'X' amount of BTUs at any particular power output and those BTUs have to be disposed of one way or another.



    I would expect it would be dispersed through through block radiation and ?.



    and exhaust.

    the more heat that goes out the exh the less heat that has to be disposed of underhood.

    so, since your primary goal is underhood temps, you'd want to coat all exh pieces back to at least the firewall.

    coating the pistons should also help a great deal as alum conducts heat a lot faster than cast iron.



    OT:
    what's up with the CCPcoatings account? he's got multiple posts just in this thread but it's not incrementing his post count.

    more important, when i go to the 'post reply' screen, his replies no longer show in the comment thread. i have to open a new window and view the raw thread in order to see / quote what he's saying.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  6. #16
    Bob, yes, it is a '67 GS400 with all its good and bad points of being an original. If it were not a good representative capable of a reasonable desirable restoration, and I wasn't so nostalgic, I would have outside air in a heartbeat! How about a starwars air cleaner sticking through the hood like a shaker?


    CCP, I don't have a significant heat problem, the temperature ( on the crap gauge I put in ) ran a little higher than normal while cruising at 75 degrees in close to 100 degree weather. If I hadn't put the gauge in, I would have never known because it would not have tripped the idiot light. I am just interested in keeping temperatures under control and saw benifits in additional heat dispersal through radiator coatings and perhaps not capturing the heat through piston/combustion chamber coatings. I think those 500 hp+ cars may run cool enough while cruising down the interstate, but they are not using any more HP than I was to do that same job. If they tried to use their HP for any length of time, I expect they would quickly develop huge cooling problems.

    I understand that combustion chamber coatings are done for HP, but there seems to be an obvious side effect that when they keep the heat in the combustion chamber to pass out through the exhaust, that heat does not have to be dealt with in the cooling system. Now how much heat that is, is an unknown to me. It is interesting though that you mention some new vehicles may be using it on their aluminum heads. I realize the benefits with my cast iron heads won't be as high, but... And it does not seem like a job that is beyond my capabilities.

    You also must know, I am the type of clown that paints the inside of his engines!?!? Yes, I like Krylon or Glyptol. Because it increased oil return rates, because it helps move contaminants over the cast iron into the pan, because it reduces the chances of flaking cast iron, NO! Because when I pull a valve cover or an intake back of my motor on a Sunday afternoon, with the tunes turn up and a cold one, it just looks sooooo nice!


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  7. #17
    You also must know, I am the type of clown that paints the inside of his engines!?



    now i want to see pics of the inside of your engine.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  8. #18
    This is the 455 that I am planning for my car.
    And a 430 I had.
    Went to upload the 430 pic and accidentally deleted the 455 and the picture is at the shop, so I can't do anything about it for now.
    Last edited by Bob; 08-17-2014 at 03:26 PM.


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