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Thread: Ceramic Coatings

  1. #1

    Ceramic Coatings

    Has anyone here messed with ceramic coatings? I am interested in several, headers (of course), combustion chamber, and radiator. I have been looking at the "Tech Line Coatings".
    1. Headers: to minimize under hood temperatures.
    2. Combustion Chambers: Again to reduce cooling requirements and control temperatures, possibly along with some performance benefits (my application is only street performance so I may not run my engine hard enough to gain from the extreme performance benefits).
    3. Radiator: I hadn't originally considered this, but it appears that there could be some real gain here, claims to 20%! I figure a gain of 5-10% could make it worth while.


    http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-p...ce/default.htm
    Last edited by Bob; 08-13-2014 at 07:23 AM.


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  2. #2
    what are they talking about coating on the radiator? can you link the specific page? i'm not seeing anything obvious on radiators at your link.

    and 20% gain of what?

    the whole point of a radiator is to reject heat from the water into the passing air flow. how would a ceramic insulator aid this?



    Headers: to minimize under hood temperatures.



    from a power perspective, keeping the heat in the exhaust gases also helps to maintain exhaust velocity. the more heat in a gas, the more volume that gas wants to occupy.

    so, if you have a ~300 degree ( just to throw a number out there ) drop in temp from the head exhaust port to the tip of the pipe at the back of the car, you actually need to reduce pipe cross section as you move from the collector to the back of the car simply to maintain exhaust velocity and not have the gases stacking and block itself.
    Last edited by bob k. mando; 08-13-2014 at 11:29 AM.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

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  3. #3
    Here:
    http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-p...df/cat2010.pdf
    on page 12

    I think if they had their way you would coat everything inside and out on your engine

    Here's another outfit:
    http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating-search/

    And there are others I have found.


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  4. #4
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    Ceramic Coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Has anyone here messed with ceramic coatings? I am interested in several, headers (of course), combustion chamber, and radiator. I have been looking at the "Tech Line Coatings".
    1. Headers: to minimize under hood temperatures.
    2. Combustion Chambers: Again to reduce cooling requirements and control temperatures, possibly along with some performance benefits (my application is only street performance so I may not run my engine hard enough to gain from the extreme performance benefits).
    3. Radiator: I hadn't originally considered this, but it appears that there could be some real gain here, claims to 20%! I figure a gain of 5-10% could make it worth while.

    Headers are generally where everyone starts with Ceramic Coatings. Reduced underhood temps is a common reason, though corrosion reduction is the biggest. Coating the pistons and combustion chambers are generally for performance purposes, more commonly on aluminum head to keep the heat IN the chamber. You're likely going to start seeing OEM cars coming with coated chambers and pistons very soon as OEM's have recognized that there is about a 25-30% loss in thermal efficiency in modern engines due to aluminum blocks / heads / pistons. Capturing that HEAT is free HP.....

    Not sure where you got your info on the radiator but you absolutely DO NOT want to ceramic coat a radiator. Ceramic coatings / thermal barriers are insulators which means they will keep heat in something and or reject heat similar to a thermos. In this case the heat is IN the radiator and you want to SHED heat, NOT keep it in the radiator. I suspect you are confusing ceramic coating in this scenario with "Heat Dissipating Coatings".

    Heat Dissipating Coatings are typically used on intercoolers, radiators, brake parts, etc, or where someone is looking shed heat. A coated radiator or intercooler will typically dissipate heat faster than the raw substrate......

  5. #5
    Here:
    http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-p...df/cat2010.pdf
    on page 12





    okay, i'm not even sure that's a ceramic product. pg 5 also has some info, look at the 'CTD' and 'TLTD' product descriptions.

    maybe if you get ahold of the MSDS sheet we can see something useful.

    they're claiming surface protection ( eliminate oxidization ), better thermal conductivity and better heat rejection ( due to the black color ) all of which are viable claims, depending on what the product actually is.

    biggest thing i would be concerned about is surface tension of the material allowing it to bridge over the airflow passages and actually block off fins but it sounds like a very thin viscosity fluid. you could probably blow over it the radiator with an airhose immediately after coating to remove any possibility of that hazard.

    otoh, the radiator coating sounds to me like something for a full race engine.

    if you've got a good rad and water pump and no problems internal to the engine it should take some pretty extreme conditions to render the cooling system incapable of keeping the engine below 190.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  6. #6
    I had a set of steel TA 2" headers Jet Hot Coated inside and out in early 90s. I ran them for about 5 years. Looking at them in storage a few months ago, they still look like new. Most others would be mainly rust by now.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  7. #7
    OK, I must have started reading "Ceramic Coatings", then had it stuck in my head for all coatings. They are evidently different coatings for the various applications.

    I noticed on my internet journey of combustion chamber coatings, a performance chart which showed a cross-over rpm of about 3000 where it implied that there may actually be a HP loss below that rpm and a gain above it. Not sure what to think about that...

    I really do ( note: edited from don't, can't believe is typed that ) think my cooling is in good condition in my car, but I put in a temp gauge and took it to the Buick Nationals. It was possible to notice the gauge climb a bit above the normal stable temperature. The conditions were hotter than hell, cruising at 75 with the a/c on, 3.36 gears at somewhere over 3000rpm. It never pushed any water out except when I pulled off the freeway to a motel which was right there and I shut the car down immediately causing some boil out ( my overflow tank is too small, but cute ).

    I am planning a 455 this winter, maybe with headers, and am concerned about under hood temperatures. I feel I must maintain my "Star Wars" air cleaner, which means I really would like to not increase them. That is where interest in ceramic coated headers and header wraps comes from. While exploring that I thought I would look at the ceramic coated combustion chambers which could double duty to increase cooling performance a bit as I felt I had pushed it, and some performance gain to boot. That is where I noticed the radiator coatings, a little gain there can't hurt....and on it goes....more coatings than I had ever thought about

    And I think I have all the tools and more to use them, so learn and I could do them for others too.
    Last edited by Bob; 08-15-2014 at 07:13 PM.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CCPcoatings View Post
    Headers are generally where everyone starts with Ceramic Coatings. Reduced underhood temps is a common reason, though corrosion reduction is the biggest. Coating the pistons and combustion chambers are generally for performance purposes, more commonly on aluminum head to keep the heat IN the chamber. You're likely going to start seeing OEM cars coming with coated chambers and pistons very soon as OEM's have recognized that there is about a 25-30% loss in thermal efficiency in modern engines due to aluminum blocks / heads / pistons. Capturing that HEAT is free HP.....

    Not sure where you got your info on the radiator but you absolutely DO NOT want to ceramic coat a radiator. Ceramic coatings / thermal barriers are insulators which means they will keep heat in something and or reject heat similar to a thermos. In this case the heat is IN the radiator and you want to SHED heat, NOT keep it in the radiator. I suspect you are confusing ceramic coating in this scenario with "Heat Dissipating Coatings".

    Heat Dissipating Coatings are typically used on intercoolers, radiators, brake parts, etc, or where someone is looking shed heat. A coated radiator or intercooler will typically dissipate heat faster than the raw substrate......
    It appears you are a rep, how do you think ceramic coatings compare to header wraps for reduction in under hood temperature, better, equal or less.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    OK, I must have started reading "Ceramic Coatings", then had it stuck in my head for all coatings. They are evidently different coatings for the various applications.

    I noticed on my internet journey of combustion chamber coatings, a performance chart which showed a cross-over rpm of about 3000 where it implied that there may actually be a HP loss below that rpm and a gain above it. Not sure what to think about that...

    I really don't think my cooling is in good condition in my car, but I put in a temp gauge and took it to the Buick Nationals. It was possible to notice the gauge climb a bit above the normal stable temperature. The conditions were hotter than hell, cruising at 75 with the a/c on, 3.36 gears at somewhere over 3000rpm. It never pushed any water out except when I pulled off the freeway to a motel which was right there and I shut the car down immediately causing some boil out ( my overflow tank is too small, but cute ).

    I am planning a 455 this winter, maybe with headers, and am concerned about under hood temperatures. I feel I must maintain my "Star Wars" air cleaner, which means I really would like to not increase them. That is where interest in ceramic coated headers and header wraps comes from. While exploring that I thought I would look at the ceramic coated combustion chambers which could double duty to increase cooling performance a bit as I felt I had pushed it, and some performance gain to boot. That is where I noticed the radiator coatings, a little gain there can't hurt....and on it goes....more coatings than I had ever thought about

    And I think I have all the tools and more to use them, so learn and I could do them for others too.

    What radiator are you using and what HP level are at? I haven't heard you mention anything about intake air temperatures, so why are you so concerned with under hood temps as opposed to engine temps?

  10. #10
    I haven't heard you mention anything about intake air temperatures, so why are you so concerned with under hood temps as opposed to engine temps?


    the 'Star Wars' air cleaner is a one year only option from 1967 which has no remote air pickup. so high under hood temps can easily have a negative impact on performance.

    http://americanmusclecar.files.wordp...ir-cleaner.jpg

    although now Bob is baffling me. increasing rad efficiency is going pump more heat into the engine compartment ... which kind of counteracts the entire point of ceramic coating the headers.

    the best intake temp solution would probably be to rig up some sort of hose contraption to the underside of the hood that when closed would function to route air from in front of the radiator and pipe it directly to the Star Wars snorkel openings. there probably isn't room to go over the top of the rad and under hood though.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

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