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Thread: 1970 buick electra

  1. #1
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    1970 buick electra

    To bob mando.....can you take a look at the picture...what do you think is the reason for the difference in shade.....i figured maybe it was hit and repainted....DSCF1227.jpgDSCF1228.jpg

  2. #2
    *shrugs*

    hard to say. it could also be that something was different about the paint batch that was used to paint the 1/4 before it was put on the car. 40 years of weathering will highlight things like that.

    the biggest thing is if you can find anything structural.


    i see the hood seems to be slightly high vs the 1/4 right there at the front, behind the headlight filler panel. is that the same as on the passenger side?

    it's probably not feasible to take the 1/4 off, but if you could look at the back side of it you would see the wrinkles left from where the sheet metal was crunched and straightened if it had been crashed.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  3. #3
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    1970 buick electra

    To bob mando......
    im not sure why the hood is slightly high perhaps when they took the pictures of the engine they didnt close it back all the way.....

    i have one more picture that shows the entire hood i will post it so you can see.....

    but if the hood is not the same on the other side what could this mean?

    and what do you mean when you say find something structural?

  4. #4
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    1970 buick electra

    To Bob Mando
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    that doesn't show anything.

    look closely at the 2nd pic in your first post. you see how the headlight filler lines up almost perfectly with the front of the hood? and then as soon as it transitions to the actual 1/4, there's an offset of +1/16" between the hood and 1/4 and transitions back to flush as you get closer to the windshield?

    this can't be a problem with the filler because it's mounted flush to the front of the 1/4 and i don't see any gaps or offsets there.

    now, i'm NOT saying this is proof of crash damage. i'm just pointing out where the sheet metal doesn't line up very well. this could just be a poor stamping of the hood or LF 1/4.

    however, if it IS crash damage, it could be because the hood took a shot in the front and got bowed up a little bit a foot further back. they could have 'fixed' whatever wrinkle there was at the very front but never quite gotten the hood recurved to it's original dimension. then the differently shaded paint makes sense, because it may have been a LF impact and they may have grabbed a different 1/4 out of the junk yard. now you've got variant weathering between the rest of the car and the 'new' LF 1/4.

    of course, an impact which got the hood AND the 1/4 also probably took out the headlight and grill and likely got into the bumper. so those could have all been replaced.

    so, you can look for socket marks on the heads of the body mount bolts and on the sheet metal around the bolts. you know what a socket mark on paint looks like, right? if not, just go find a bolt on a painted surface and take it out and put it back in.



    and what do you mean when you say find something structural?


    paint is cosmetic and doesn't really mean much. i mean, you're planning on giving this car a repaint, right? probably redo the interior as well?

    'structural' would be the sheet metal, frame or suspension.

    once sheet metal has been wrinkled you can pound it back smooth to the touch with the right tools and skill. BUT, you can't pound it smooth enough that you can't see the line where it folded. that has to be covered with paint or Zeibarted or something.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  6. #6
    i lied.

    that last pic really shows off the difference in color between the headlight filler and the rest of the car. that is pretty dramatic.

    also, it's very hard to tell ... but is the LF of the hood recessed just a little bit from the leading edge of the filler panel? especially as compared the the RF?

    if so, that would be where the extra height in the hood came from. there has to be an extreme impact for sheet metal to get deformed to such an extent that it's actually a different length. what normally happens is that if a curved piece of metal gets taller ... it ALSO gets shorter. it's hard to see a difference in the actual arc but it's easy to see the difference in length.

    think of it as a version of thermodynamics. you pretty much can't create or destroy length once a piece of metal has been cut ... you have to conserve the length of the stamping.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  7. #7
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    1970 buick electra

    To Bob Mando.......on the passenger side of the car the hood looks flush all the way from the filler panel to the windshield....if the arc was from impact why doesn't the passenger side have some type of separation or arc.....even if the impact was on the driver side their should still be some sign of impact damage on the passenger side or misalignment.....no?

    can you see a difference in length on the hood? I can see the arc in the hood clearly but I cant see any difference I length.....also if this was caused by impact why is there no signs of damage on the driver side fender between the filler panel and the front of the fender......I know u didn't say anything was caused from impact im just wondering.....what if it was.....


    you said look for socket marks on the bolts to see if they were ever removed and put back on? this will tell me if the bumper and panels were ever removed?
    my best bet to see if there was crash damage would be to try and find something structural like you said....so far we have a hood with an arc only on one side......notice how by the windshield the hood is lined up with the quarter panel perfectly on the driver side....how could an impact bend the sheet metal and not push the hood further back.....remember on the passenger side there is a misalignment but it looks more like the door needs to be fixed or the 1/4 panel has a loose bolt......

  8. #8
    also if this was caused by impact why is there no signs of damage on the driver side fender between the filler panel and the front of the fender.


    you sure that's original?



    can you see a difference in length on the hood?

    it's hard to see in the second pic/first post but it looks like maybe. if you had an overhead shot of the leading edge of the hood and LF filler panel, that's where it would be highlighted. perspective foreshortening ( no depth in 2d ) is the reason why it's really hard to see from a straight on from the front pic.



    how could an impact bend the sheet metal and not push the hood further back


    we're assuming repair work was done to this car IF it was in an accident. whether the hood was pushed back or not, it's feeble mindedly simple to loosen a couple of bolts and readjust the hinge end of the hood so it lines up again with the cowl.


    .remember on the passenger side there is a misalignment


    oh yeah. forgot about that.


    well, i guess you can keep pursuing this car. you do a frame off resto and all the body panels are going to come off anyways.

    what you're doing now is compiling evidence that the car seems to have taken damage of some kind for bargaining purposes.

    1 - interference between pass door and RF 1/4
    2 - assymetrical match between hood and the front 1/4s
    3 - LF filler panel looks like it was from another car

    you look at it in person you may find more, but the indications we've already got aren't good for the car being 'pristine'.

    another bargaining trick i've found useful is to only take as much cash as you're willing to spend ... BUT TAKE IT IN CASH. do your haggling with the owner, show him your money so he knows you're serious and can pay on the spot AND BE PREPARED TO WALK AWAY.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  9. #9
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    1970 buick electra

    To Bob Mando......my only problem bob is I don't want a car that's been in an accident.....

    if this car hit something maybe once or twice and that's the reason for the arc in the hood, the filler panel discoloring, and the door misalignment I guess I can live with that as long as there was no major body work done or any frame damage......

    this was an every day car at some point so some damage is expected.....

    I cant lie the hood and door does bother me........but since I am paying on the car already I have to deal with it.....I will have an expert look at the car, he will look for structure damage.....hopefully he can figure out what the issue Is with the hood and door

    worst case scenario I will sell the car and break even....the car costs $5250

    what you think Bob?

  10. #10
    but since I am paying on the car already I have to deal with it.


    you're paying on the car already and you've never seen it in person? ugh.


    general rule of thumb is that you don't put yourself in a situation where YOU are desperate to own something. always remember, an old car like this is a TOY. it's something you WANT not something you NEED. unless the seller is offering you such a lowball price that he's practically forcing you to buy it, always be prepared to walk away. if you don't get this car there will be another one along in three months or six or whatever.


    there's not very much in the Buick world that is both very rare AND highly desirable. 67 star wars air cleaner, stage 2 equipment and the dual quad Nail stuff is probably the only things that the seller would truly have you over a barrel on.

    i would say that rare Buicks as complete cars look to be out of your price range ... but you were talking about a frame off resto. have you considered pricing an already resto'd Buick? there's not a whole lot of demand in Buick collectibles overall, you can probably still snap up a car that someone else has already done for less than the cost of redoing this one. and you won't have to deal with waiting for the work to be done.

    rivowners.org is a good place to start on these big old cars.




    I will have an expert look at the car



    you want to take it to somebody who straightens frames. he'll be able to check everything important for square and level. you get the frame straightened out and you work up from there.



    worst case scenario I will sell the car and break even....the car costs $5250



    it does have the one year only high compression 1970 455 engine. that's not nothing.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

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