Distributor 53 Buick

[Brooklyn53]

I really need ssome advice from here. My car doesn't start at all and it's definitly my fault. After work today I tried to start my car and it just kept turning but wasn't firing up. Since timing was not done after the electronic ignition install, I made a mark on the distributor to show where it was originally set, loosened both bolts on the distributor and rotated it clockwise. This made the car sound like it was cranking much worst as I tried to start it. So, I went back and rotated the distributor counter clockwise this made the car sound like it was cranking faster and about to start but it didn't. I went back and set the distributor to the original mark, tightened back both bolts on the distributor, and tried to start it. It turned over two times and started to make a weird sound, so I stopped trying to start the car. I waited five minutes, turned the key and nothing and I'm talking about the only thing I heard was the ignition go click.

Let the tongue lashing begin....what did I do? Could I have permanantly damaged something is my main concern.

[raycow]

Let the tongue lashing begin....what did I do? Could I have permanantly damaged something is my main concern.

So far, I can't see that you did anything terribly wrong, other than not setting the timing immediately after you installed the Pertronix. Let's leave the tongue lashing on hold for the time being.

To be honest, I have no idea why your engine wouldn't start - I mean before you tried to adjust the timing. This is a separate issue we will have to go back to once you get the engine to crank.

The cranking, or lack of it, has to be fixed before you can do anything else. Obviously, the first thing is to see if the battery is discharged, so try jumping from a known good battery. If that doesn't make any difference, the starter has to be checked next.

I believe you said the car had been converted to 12 volts, but I can't remember if by you or a previous owner. Unless you say otherwise, I will assume you still have the stock 6 volt starter. I am guessing that the prolonged cranking session (because the engine wouldn't start) heated up the starter quite a bit. These starters normally hold up fairly well on 12 volts, but the 6 volt solenoids are a whole other story.

Once you know you have a good battery, take a screwdrver you don't like too much (because it might get burn marks) and hold it across the two large terminals on the solenoid. If you are lucky, the starter will spin. It won't crank the engine because the pinion isn't engaged with the flywheel, but don't worry about that for the moment.

If the starter spins, try jumping across the solenoid battery terminal and the small terminal. If nothing happens now, the solenoid is probably done for and will need to be replaced with a 12 volt unit. If the engine cranks, your problem is upstream from the solenoid. The next thing to check is the starter relay, but only if you still have the stock gas pedal start feature. If you have push button or key switch starting, wire the switch directly to the small terninal on the solenoid and bypass the relay. This is if you have a manual transmission. If you have a Dynaflow, you should go through the neutral switch on the steering column to prevent the engine from starting in gear.

If the starter won't spin, you will have to take it off the engine and pull it apart. Once you are inside, look for melted solder or a burnt commutator or brushes. Also check for bushings worn badly enough to allow the armature to strike the field poles.

That's about all I can think of for now. Please post again and let us know what you find out.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

The car is 12 volts that was converted by the previous owner and I assume it's a 12 Volt starter. What would I look for to tell the difference? Its very possible I did burn out the starter, I tried starting it 20 to 30 times without it firing up. Is it possible that the starter became disengaged and rotating the engine by hand might be enough to fix the problem?

[Brooklyn53]

Also, the transmission is converted over to an automatic Chevy 200 4R.

[raycow]

Also, the transmission is converted over to an automatic Chevy 200 4R.

Ok, now that does make a difference. If you have a 200-4R in there, then you must have some kind of transmission adaptor. The only adaptor I am familiar with (and there may be other types) is the one from Bendtsen's, which looks like this:
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/...strght8kit.jpg

If your adaptor is like this one, then you no longer have the original straight 8 starter. The one in the picture appears to be a gear reduction replacement for the later type of Chevy starter that bolts to the block instead of the bellhousing.

The reason I am mentioning all this is that the troubleshooting procedure I described in my earlier post may not work the same way as with the stock Buick starter. However, it couldn't hurt to try it anyway before you take the starter off the engine. The good news is that all the starters I have seen of this type were made for 12 volts.

You also have a good point about turning the engine by hand if you think there is a bad spot on the ring gear. The adaptor plate appears to be open on the bottom, so you should be able to see if the gear has any damaged teeth as you turn it.

Good luck, and please let us know what you come up with.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

It is a Bendtsen's adapter and I spoke with the previous owner and he confirmed the starter was converted over to 12 volts, as was the starter selenoid. I'm waiting on a 12 volt battery charger to arrive so I can fully recharge my battery, to eliminate the battery as a problem.

[Brooklyn53]

I also went to double check the firing order for the spark plugs and wires in my 53 Buick shop manuel and couldn't find it. Since the car ran up until last week, I never checked to see if it was done right in the first place. So does anyone have the correct firing order?

[raycow]

So does anyone have the correct firing order?

1-6-2-5-8-3-7-4. Distributor shaft turns counterclockwise. This is for my 52, but I would expect all the I-8 engines to be the same.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

Thanks for your advice Ray. A fully charged battery, confirmation of my firing order was correct, and one old screwdriver and I quickly realized I needed a new starter. Also, since my starter was already converted over to 12 volts, I was able to get it rebuilt locally in less than 4 hours. I installed it yesterday and my car started right up.

Next up, timing.

[raycow]

I installed it yesterday and my car started right up.

Next up, timing.

That's great news. I'm glad to hear that your problem was nothing worse than the starter.

Now I do have a question about the timing. As you may already know, the stock timing mark is on the flywheel, and you view it through a hole in the stock bellhousing or Dynaflow adaptor. However, in the picture on Bendtsen's site I don't see an obvious hole for that purpose, so how are you supposed to see the timing mark?
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Pics/strght8kit.jpg

Ray