12 Volt 53 Buick Need Sugestions

[Brooklyn53]

I have a 53 Buick Special that is converted over to 12 volts. It ran great up until today on the 12 volt system but on start-up was a little hard. So today, I installed an electronic ignition (Pertronix) and replaced the coil (Also Pertronix). It started up better than ever at my garage at least 3 different times. I took it for a drive about 20 miles and parked. When I tried to start it up again, 20 minutes later, it wouldn't start. It turns over but won't fire up (Yes it has gas).

The advive I'm seeking is:

After installing the electronic ignition and coil and I made sure everything worked and fired up with no problem, why would it all come to a screatching hault 30 minutes later?

Thanks for any advice.

Mike

[raycow]

If you really don't have any spark, I am suspecting some kind of heat-related problem affecting the Pertronix. Can you crank the engine from under the hood? If yes, pull the center wire out of the distributor cap and check for spark while cranking the engine.

Are you running a ballast resistor? If not, what kind of coil did you install? Specifically, did the coil instructions say it could be used without a ballast resistor?

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

I did not install a ballast resistor because the car started without it. Would not installing the resistor cause the car to start three time and then all of a sudden not start at all?

[raycow]

Would not installing the resistor cause the car to start three time and then all of a sudden not start at all?

Well yes in a way, based more on the total running time rather than how many times you started the engine.

The purpose of the resistor is to limit the flow of current through the coil. There are coils which are designed to be used without a resistor, and if you have that kind of coil, it is perfectly ok not to use a resistor with your Pertronix. However, if the coil is designed for a resistor and you don't use one, the resulting excessive current flow can burn the points on a points system or overheat an electronc ignition module.

I'll bet that if you examine the points you removed you will find that they are burned, and that this burning was caused by not using a resistor.

I don't know what the specs are on the Pertronix coils. If it doesn't say on your coil or its instruction sheet whether or not to use a resistor, you will need to ask Pertronix tech support.

When I converted my 52 to 12 volts I kept the stock points in the distributor and replaced the original 6 volt coil with a "no-resistor" 12 volt coil in order to keep the wiring simple. This was just an ordinary parts store coil with nothing special about it other than being designed for use without an external resistor.

Later on I installed a Pertronix unit, not because I was having any problems, but just because I wanted to eliminate any long-term maintenance issues with the points. I routinely do this with any car that I plan to hang onto for a while. When I installed the Pertronix I kept the same coil I was using with the points, and it has been running like this for several years now without any ignition problems.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

I'm still not sure if the resistor was the problem or not, because today upon further inspection of the distributor and rotor, I noticed the entire underside of my rotor was sheered off. So...now I wait because finding a rotor for a 53 Buick on a Sunday is not going to happen.

I also noticed that the distrubutor cap isn't as snug as it should be. Is this a common occurance when buying a 12 volt distributor cap for a 53 Buick?

[telriv]

I am going to take a guess at this being I do NOT have a parts book in front of me. The stock Special came with a straight 8 with a 6 volt system. The Super & RoadMaster came with a 322 V-8 & was 12 volts. I would believe that the two caps are slightly different. As you stated " I bought a 12 volt distributor cap". Have you tried that place on TV called "Hard Parts" in South Bronx???

[raycow]

today upon further inspection of the distributor and rotor, I noticed the entire underside of my rotor was sheered off. So...now I wait because finding a rotor for a 53 Buick on a Sunday is not going to happen.

I also noticed that the distrubutor cap isn't as snug as it should be. Is this a common occurance when buying a 12 volt distributor cap for a 53 Buick?

Oh yes, rotor damage like that will do it for sure. Actually, there is no such thing as a 6 volt or 12 volt distributor cap. You have to use whichever cap fits the stock distributor. It won't care what voltage you are running.

One problem I have heard about (but it hasn't happened to me) is that when you install the Pertronix trigger wheel over the cam it can prevent the rotor from seating fully. The rotor then strikes the cap, which will definitely cause the kind of damage such as you described.

Looking at the upside, the good news is that you probably don't have a module problem, so you can forget about the resistor for the time being.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

Tom nailed it. Does anyone have a better suggestion than ordering a 12 volt distributor cap and rotor from Bob's Automobilia or Cars Inc.? That's where I ordered the ones I'm currently working with.

With the 12 volt system, electronic ignition, PerTronix coil, and larger gapped plugs I would think that the distributor cap and rotor would also need an upgrade but the only ones out there seem to be plain vanilla. Anyone aware of a different GM model that would support such an upgrade to a 53 Buick Special?

[raycow]

I would think that the distributor cap and rotor would also need an upgrade but the only ones out there seem to be plain vanilla. Anyone aware of a different GM model that would support such an upgrade to a 53 Buick Special?

Unfortunately, no. For the pre-57 (window type) distributors, your only choices today are stock parts, a Pertronix-type conversion, or a complete replacement distributor like a Mallory, Accel, etc. I would be very surprised if Mallory is still making distributors for the I-8, but you might be able to find one on ebay or at a vintage speed parts swap meet. There was also a magneto like Vertex or Scintilla or Hunt made for the I-8 at one time. Good luck finding one of those!

Oh, I almost forgot - we have one guy on here doing some serious racing with an I-8 - not drag, but flying mile like Bonneville. If I can find him I will post his screen name and you can ask him what kind of ignition he is running.

Ray

[Brooklyn53]

First off, I want to thank Tom and Ray for responding to this post; both of you helped jog my memory of the installation of the PerTronix electronic ignition and PerTronix coil, and it helped out tremendously.


So this post is VERY specific to my application. When purchasing a PerTronix electronic ignition for a 53 Buick Special it comes with a plastic spacer that installs underneith the rotor. So after we installed everything that came inside the box and the engine fired up better than ever, why would we think that we did something wrong?

Next, I take the car for a cruise...

I get back in my car little later and it turns but won't fire. Upon inspection of the electronic ignition instal, I notice the rotor is damaged.

In short, an electronic ignition from PerTronix can be installed on various model and year cars. The plastic spacer should not have been installed and, had the car NOT started in the first place, we would have assumed that the electronic ignition itself was the problem. However, in my case, it DID work long enough to crack the rotor.

After running through every volt-meter test with no luck and out of a last ditch effort to see if I could get the rotor sparking, I took the plastic spacer out and it fired up right away.

So, it would make sense that in SOME applications, the spacer should be installed. In my particular car and year, it should never have been installed in the first place.