new member in PA about to own 64 Special Deluxe

**clanceman427** · 07-02-2012, 09:11 AM

Hi there, just joined because this weekend I will pick up a 1964 Buick Special Deluxe. Found it locally. I live in Phoenixville PA. I'm looking forward to getting this shell back on the road. Thinking about swapping in a Buick 350 with a 4 speed (M20-or M21), maybe I'll try to match what could have been ordered with this car (this one was originally auto). I have the VIN, is there a place to order the original build info like the Pontiac Historical Society if I supply my VIN?
I will have the body tag info this weekend, so I can research what was on this car originally and the colors and interior and such. I have a soft spot for 2 door post intermediates! Here are some pics:

Kevin

**Buford26** · 07-03-2012, 12:09 PM

Unfortunately, for U.S. built Buicks prior to 1970 there is nothing like the Pontiac Historical Society. If you don't have any of the original paper work, all you're left with is the body tag and perhaps a build sheet that might be hidden in the car somewhere.

**clanceman427** · 07-03-2012, 12:17 PM

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. Never did take a photo of the body tag (should have) I'm curious what it had for interior and exterior colors.

Turns out I might not be buying it anyway due to title issues. Problem is, in PA, any title transfer needs a notarized signature from whoever is relinquishing the title. The last 2 names on the back of the title were never notorized. The guy who is currently selling it never transfered the title in his name. So, unless he can get the title paperwork properly caught up, I'm gonna pass. I'd hate to get this thing back together and running only to find out I can't get it registered (even for classic tags).

Kevin

**raycow** · 07-03-2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by clanceman427

Turns out I might not be buying it anyway due to title issues. Problem is, in PA, any title transfer needs a notarized signature from whoever is relinquishing the title. The last 2 names on the back of the title were never notorized. The guy who is currently selling it never transfered the title in his name. So, unless he can get the title paperwork properly caught up, I'm gonna pass. I'd hate to get this thing back together and running only to find out I can't get it registered (even for classic tags).
Kevin

It's issues like this which can cause an otherwise salvageable car (as this one appears to be) to end up as parts, or worse, crushed.

Have you looked into the possibility of getting a "bonded" title? Your state may have another name for this. In essence, if the car does not appear on a stolen vehicle list, you post a bond and are issued a provisional title for the car. If, within a designated period of time, nobody submits a substantiated claim to the car, you are issued a clear title and the bond is refunded.

The bond is primarily to deter you from disposing of the car within the time period. If someone does claim the car, and you still have it, the bond will be refunded when you give up possession.

Btw, the details of this process vary from state to state. I am not a lawyer, so you may want to consult one to find out the specifics in PA before taking this path.

Ray

**clanceman427** · 07-03-2012, 01:12 PM

Hmm didn't think about that option. I really think what happened was 3 owners ago, that person never notarized the transfer of title, because when you do that in PA, the new owner has to pay 6% (or 7% in pittsburgh or philadephia) sales tax on the transaction, plus titling fees. Also, you must have the sale price be a minimum amount (I think $800??) in order for it to be a normal transaction- if you claim you bought it for less, they give it a special parts car only title. I think it's PA's way of getting the sales tax revenue. Then the next owner propagated the non-notarized transaction again. Now, this car was slated to be a drag car at some point, so whoever wanted to do that obviously doesn't care about registering/titling properly becuase it would have been a track-only car. I asked the current "owner" (he never signed anything) to either catch up the title paperwork (which could be impossible if he can't track down 2 previous owners) or sorry the deal is off- unless I can work this bonded title thing.

Kevin

**raycow** · 07-03-2012, 01:33 PM

A lot of states collect sales tax on private used car transactions and require notarized signatures. However, this is the first time I ever heard about a minimum sale price requirement, and I have been in the car hobby for a long time (I'm old). It sounds to me like a sneaky, underhanded way for the state to get older cars off the road.

Ray

**clanceman427** · 07-03-2012, 09:15 PM

Well the current "owner" just confirmed with me by email that he can't fix the title problems because he doesn't know the owner before him. I give him some slack because he is a young kid so I give him the benefit of the doubt. He lives at home with his parents and really doesn't know cars, this was clear while taliking to him when I went and looked at it last weekend. Either that or he's a better con man then I give him credit for (act aloof and unaware while he sells stolen property to me??) I doubt it. I really think he wanted to get into drag racing with this car but the project proved too much for him. Its a shame I have to let it go, I was really into the idea of this car. 1964 Buick Special Deluxe, I've never seen one but it grew on me. 2 door post, clean lines, love grille and taillights, 1st year of the A body. and that light weight feel of that framed door when you close it. No frills muscle car. Now just imagine it with a 4 speed. Damn.

Kevin

**clanceman427** · 07-03-2012, 09:31 PM

When I looked at this car, I knew for the most part what I was looking at- a shell with the beginnings of a drag car conversion (as evidenced by the fabricated cover plates on the firewall, remote battery mount partially installed in trunk, and the opening cut in the trunk floor for the fuel cell). Beyond that nothing done that would make it hard to re-street. However, the pictures that were sent to me when I inquired about the Craigslist ad (that I posted at the beginning of this thread), showed a nice trunk lid and rear cove panel. Well, somewhere in between when those photos were taken, and last week, someone tried to pry their way into the trunk. Take a look at the pics. What a terrible shame because the underside of that trunk lid at the rear seam was in great shape, to rust damage, and the whole trunk lid had no dents. Also, someone along the way decided to mill off the drip rails (the passenger side drip rails are completely gone, while the driver's side is there until the 1/4 window). Makes me mad.

Kevin

**Dr. Frankenbuick** · 07-04-2012, 05:53 AM

Why don't you check with a Notary? I am sure this happens all the time and there is a way around it. My 66 GS came from a woman in PA that had purchased it from a man that died after selling it to her. She did not title it as she was not sure if it was parts or a project. I can't remember if he had signed it or not, but the Notary was able to help me get it into my name and I have the title.

Trunk lids can be found and it would not be impossible to weld a drip rail in place. It will require some work to the back now, but it is not that bad. If you really want this car, I think a way can be found, and all damage can be repaired. Just be careful what you wish for. There is no denying that it is one big project!

**clanceman427** · 07-04-2012, 06:06 AM

Hi Steve. I checked with my local auto tags place once he sent me photos of front and back of the title. She was nice and gave me advice. She said "do you know a notary? If so you could get them to sign, date, and stamp for the other title transfers that were never notarized. Then an affadavit would just need to be written to address a signature that appears to be on there in error. Problem is, i know 2 women at work who i thought were notarys but they both are not current or trained for automotive titling. Any pa auto notarys out there want to help a buick guy out??

Kevin