1963 Skylark rearend

**bob k. mando** · 09-30-2012, 08:49 PM

as I said before, the rear wheels look a bit out of Plum as well, they look a little off kilter when the car is sitting on a sideways incline

you can put a medium length level across the tire sidewall to check verticality. rear straight axle tires shouldn't be showing any camber at all.

and, of course, the double check is to turn the car 180 degrees and see if both tires lean the opposite way that they were previously.

**raycow** · 09-30-2012, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Skylarkowner

No, I don't think the play is between the shaft and housing, it's not an up and down or back and fourth direction or front and back type direction of play, it's in and out play. (In the direction one would use if you're pulling the axle out or replacing it back in.) However, as I said before, the rear wheels look a bit out of Plum as well, they look a little off kilter when the car is sitting on a sideways incline, the wheel positioning looks a bit like this (/) rather then upright like this (I) the wheel seems to be leaning to one side just a wee little bit. I hope you know what I'm explaining here? This is kinda tough to describe!

The play I was talking about would be in the in and out direction, exactly as you describe. What we are trying to find out here is exactly where that play is, and it can be in two different places.

1. The shaft can be moving in and out of the axle housing. That's the bearing we were talking about earlier.

2. The entire axle housing can be moving sideways relative to the rest of the car. That's the control arm bushings. I am also going to add the panhard bar bushings to this group if the car has a panhard bar. To be honest, I can't remember if these cars have one, and I can't find a picture of the Special/F85 rear suspension to look at.

I respect your statement that your mechanical skills may be limited. However, it is very easy to tell the where the play is, as long as you are willing to take the rear wheels off the car. This is no different from what you do when you change a rear tire.

Once the wheel is off, release the parking brake, take hold of the brake drum, and see if it is loose on the shaft. If it is loose, take it off too, which will expose the flange on the end of the axle shaft. If it is tight, just leave it where it is. In case it isn't obvious, absolutely do not step on the brake pedal once you have the drum off.

Now grab either the drum if it is still on, or else the flange, and try to move it in and out. You are looking for relative motion between the drum or flange and the backing plate, which is stationary because it is bolted to the axle housing. If you see any relative movement, the bearing is bad. If everything moves together, and you still get the clunking noise, your problem is the bushings. You will need to do this test on both sides, just in case the bearing on the other side is bad.

I understand what you are saying about the wheels looking out of plumb, but I think that this is because of the side slope. The car weight shifts to the downhill side and causes the car body to sit at an angle relative to the axle housing. Also, the tire sidewalls bend sideways, which might cause the same apparent effect. If you see this on level ground, that's when you should start worrying about it.

Ray

**Skylarkowner** · 10-01-2012, 05:31 AM

As usual, you have given me some great tips and advice. I will follow your instructions on testing the play to determine where it's coming from. Once I do, I'll come back and post what I discover. I have replaced break shoes before on a 1956 Chevy, so I should be able to do the test without much trouble! I think you're probably right about the Plum of the wheels, what you said makes sense. I guess I was probably over analyzing the situation.

Is replacing the rear wheel bearings a tough job. I imagine they would need to be pressed off and on?

Thank you again for your help!
B.

**raycow** · 10-01-2012, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Skylarkowner

Is replacing the rear wheel bearings a tough job. I imagine they would need to be pressed off and on?

To get the axle shaft out of the car, remove the drum and you will see a retainer behind the shaft flange that is held in place by 4 nuts or bolts. Unbolt the retainer, and if everything is working as it should, you will be able to pull the shaft out by hand. If the bearing outer race has rusted in place, you will need to rent a slide-hammer puller that attaches to the wheel studs.

Once you get the shaft out, replacing the bearing does require a press. Any machine shop should be able to do this, and some auto parts stores will also have the necessary equipment.

Ray

**Skylarkowner** · 10-01-2012, 11:30 AM

Ok, I took off both wheels, one side at a time. The passengers side break drum was loose enough to pull it off. So I did. Then I took hold of the end of the axle and push/pulled or jerked in and out on it. There is a slight bit of IN OUT movement. On the drivers side, the drum was very tight, so I grabbed the edges of the drum and pulled In/out on it, it too has a slight amount of play, perhaps just slightly more play then the passengers side has.

When I pull in and out on them, they do make a noise, but not as bad as when I push and pull or rock the rear of the car from side to side. When I do that it makes a clunking sound, when I push and pull on the axle, it makes more of a softer clack sound.

I don't know what would be considered an acceptable amount of in/out play? Would the answer be NONE or...??? When I say it's a slight amount of play, I'd guess it's less then 1 mm of play, probably more like .5 MM. It's a bit hard to judge or measure just how much it is. I can easily hear it and can just barley see the in/out movement. If I were to make an uneducated guess, there should be no, as in NONE in/out movement at all?

Thanks again,
B.

**raycow** · 10-01-2012, 04:02 PM

Well, you got me thinking about this more. A good bearing should have almost no endplay within the bearing itself, certainly not as much as a half millimeter, which is about 0.020". If the bearing was that loose, it would probably make noise just driving down a straight road. However, the bearing can have end clearance within the axle housing, and that may not be such a bad thing, because it means you can probably get the shaft out without a puller if you want to look at the bearing.

From the way you are describing the noise, I am beginning to think your problem is more likely to be in the bushings rather than in the wheel bearings. As a test, grab the backing plate and do the push and pull again to see if you can get the clunking noise. This will eliminate the bearing as a source, so any noise you hear now would have to come from the bushings.

Take a look at the rear suspension. There will be either 3 or 4 control arms running forward from the axle housing to the frame - well actually the body, since this is a unibody car and doesn't have a frame. In addition, there may be one more arm running crosswise that connects to the axle housing at one end and the body at the other end. That's the panhard bar. Each one of these pieces will have a bushing at each end.

You will need another person to help you with this. One to look and feel for relative motion at each of these bushings while the other pushes in and out on the axle housing. Needless to say, make certain the car is supported very securely on jack stands while you do this. I certainly wouldn't want to cause the loss of any Team Buick members as a direct result of any advice I might have given.

Ray

**Skylarkowner** · 10-02-2012, 05:47 AM

Hi Ray,
I'll take your advice and try your test ideas, should be easy enough. After I posted yesterday, I did some searching on the net about rear axle play, seems a little in/out play is normal with many cars. So as you, I started thinking it may not be those bearings after all.

I was thinking to use a length of garden hose like a stethoscope, have someone rock the rear of the car from side to side, as I described early, then probe around, listening to pinpoint where the Clunking sound originates from. That may tell me something. I've used garden hose in this manner before to pinpoint engine lifter ticks, seems to work pretty well.

I'll try to get to this today, I'll post back as soon as I learn something.

Thanks again,
B.

**raycow** · 10-02-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Skylarkowner

I was thinking to use a length of garden hose like a stethoscope, have someone rock the rear of the car from side to side, as I described early, then probe around, listening to pinpoint where the Clunking sound originates from. That may tell me something. I've used garden hose in this manner before to pinpoint engine lifter ticks, seems to work pretty well.

That's a good idea. The first place to point the hose would be at the bushings I mentioned in my earlier post. Just don't take any chances if you are going to be under the car while someone is pushing and pulling on it.

Ray

**Skylarkowner** · 10-02-2012, 09:47 AM

I FOUND IT!
it's bad bushings just as you figured. I didn't even need to use the garden hose. I "squeezed" myself under the car (Not while Jacked-up off the ground, so there wasn't much clearance to get under it) I had my wife rock the rear of the car back and fourth. I could easily see where the play and knocking sound is coming from. I'm not sure of the proper name for the part, but I think it would be the main control arms? Anyway, they are fair sized arms, 2 feet long maybe, that connect to the axle then up to the frame/body towards the front of the car. Anyways, that's the problem for sure. The rubber bushings on the ends of both arms are pretty much worn and rotted away. So at least I now know it's not a real hazard to drive it a bit.

I do plan on replacing those 4 bushings, if I can find them. Do you know of any outlets who may carry those parts?

This group and you people are great, so thanks to you all once again!
B.