1962 Special Convertible 215 no crank problem

[fust]

Hey, first post, so I want to start with a "right on" to everyone on here who is lending a hand to all of us learners. I really appreciate it!

I am just starting to troubleshoot my GF's ol' 62 convertible Special, with a 215 fireball. I don't have any Buick experience, but I do have some 60's ford experience, and a pretty good amount of modern car experience, and a solid set of general car/mechanic/electrical skills. I don't have a shop manual for the car, nor the $$ to put toward one at this time. So, I thought I'd head over here looking for advice from the gurus!

I managed to coax the car up and running a few months ago (needs transmission leak addressed so it's still sitting), but now I am getting no crank at all when I try to turn it over. Other electrical works (lights, etc), and I checked grounds and fuses. Jumper cables do nothing, and I am not even getting a click. The only thing that happened between a few months ago and now is that the car sat covered outside. It was even a mild winter in a mild climate!

What I want to do to test this is hotwire/jumper it to see if it will crank that way. Problem is, I don't know which posts to jumper on the solenoid to get that to happen safely.

Anyone care to help me out? A wiring diagram would be awesome!

Thanks in advance!

[raycow]

Jump the battery terminal on the solenoid to the "S" terminal. With the battery terminal at the top, the "S" terminal will be on the right. This will take all of the car wiring out of the circuit except for the battery cables.

If nothing happens. jump the two large terminals (battery to starter). If the starter spins now, the solenoid is probably defective. The engine won't crank like this (the pinion isn't engaged with the flywheel), but at least you will know if the starter works.

Ray

[fust]

Excellent, thanks for the info, it's exactly what I need! I'll give that a shot and report back.

[fust]

Hello again, sorry to leave you hanging... It worked great to hotwire the starter to crank the engine as described (thanks ray!). The connection that worked for me was a jumper between the battery terminal on the solenoid to the purple wire that has a clip connector that heads down to the starter (on the starter side of the clip connector).

That said, it is still really not wanting to turn over that well. With the (brand new) battery even slightly low, the starter can't crank the engine at all (no click, just no movement!), and when it can, it is laborious even with all spark plugs removed. I was also unable to rotate the crankshaft pulley with a socket and a breaker bar (but I admit I had a hard time getting the socket to grab and not slip). The starter was (for a bit) not engaging the flywheel, maybe because it couldn't turn it, and it would spin strong then, so I think the starter is fine.

I realize this is maybe not a "seized" engine, but it is so difficult to crank, I think maybe I should sort of treat it as if it is.

I have read about 2 "fixes" for seized engines before: Put something like Marvel Mystery Oil or even PB Blaster in each cylinder and let it sit, or put a quart of ATF in the crankcase, replacing 1 quart of regular oil and crank it/run it for a while to free things up. The oil was changed right before it sat, and looks perfectly clean.

Should I try both? Should I try something else entirely (like lube the starter, if that can even be done?)

Thanks again!

[raycow]

Sorry to hear you are having such a bad time wiith the engine. Unless the engine is newly rebuilt, you should be able to turn it over easily by hand. Yours is clearly too tight. I suspect most of your problems stem from the period when the car sat out in the weather. When the engine is stopped, at least a couple of valves will always be open. Moist air seeps into the engine, the moisture condenses on inside surfaces, and you get corrosion.

To be on the safe side, crack the oil drain plug loose and see if any water runs out. If you don't get any water out of the pan, your problems are more likely to be in the cylinders than in the bearings. In that case, you could start by pouring about an ounce or so of MMO (or something similar) into each spark plug hole. Give the crank a full turn to spread the oil around and then let it sit for at least a couple of days to give the oil some time to work.

While you are waiting, you also might want to pull the valve covers and look for any stuck valves. If you find any, try whacking the valve end of the rocker arm with a rubber hammer. Also, look for bent pushrods, which can happen if any valves are stuck so badly the cam can't budge them at all. Normally, they shouldn't be that bad after only few months unless the car was stored someplace where it gets really wet.

The starter doesn't have oil cups, but if you suspect it needs lube you can get to the drive end bushing just by taking the starter off the engine. The commutator end bushing will require removing the end plate. Don't give this one more than a drop or two because any excess can end up on the commutator where it will cause problems. While you are inside the starter, a quick look-around should give you an idea of its general condition.

That purple wire you mentioned runs all the way from the ignition switch through the neutral safety switch and firewall connector to the "S" terminal on the solenoid. Once you get the engine running, you will probably want to troubleshoot it. Work backwards from the starter, checking for corrosion at every connector along the way.

Ray

[fust]

Thanks again for the help, Ray, and for the encouragement. I'll try what is suggested.

BTW, just to clarify, when I said "The connection that worked for me was a jumper between the battery terminal on the solenoid to the purple wire that has a clip connector that heads down to the starter (on the starter side of the clip connector)." what I meant was that I put my remote start switch between the two, and that would crank the engine. Is it safe to hook it up that way (instead of down at the actual "S" terminal)? It's just way easier to get to up there! Oh yeah, and I found a wiring diagram for a '61. That's how I knew purple was the right one. I attached the diagram, so it's here for anyone who needs it... (edit: except it was resized by the forum, so it might not be very useful...I'll try another way...)



I guess that works...

[raycow]

BTW, just to clarify, when I said "The connection that worked for me was a jumper between the battery terminal on the solenoid to the purple wire that has a clip connector that heads down to the starter (on the starter side of the clip connector)." what I meant was that I put my remote start switch between the two, and that would crank the engine. Is it safe to hook it up that way (instead of down at the actual "S" terminal)? It's just way easier to get to up there!

Sure, any spot on the purple wire will be fine. Just make sure the transmission is in Park, because the engine will crank in any gear if you are using a jumper. I said to connect the jumper at the solenoid only because your post suggested that you might have a wiring problem. This would allow you to temporarily skip the troublehooting step and get directly on to cranking the engine. Now you know that the wire is good at least up to the point where you connected the jumper.

I think you will eventually find that the problem is caused by a corroded or loose contact on one of the connectors in the purple wire circuit. You could also try putting a jumper across the neutral safety switch (just a plain piece of wire, not the remote starter switch). If the neutral switch does appear to be the problem, check its adjustment before replacing it. They don't actually go bad all that often.

Ray