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Thread: 430 Into "64 LeSabre Oil Pan??

  1. #11
    rjason Guest
    Hello Ray,

    First off, thanks for jumping in. The more heads put together the better, right?

    Second, you bring up a good point with the 350. I had given a passing thought to the 340 or 350, but didn't really consider it too much. I think I got a little tunnel vision when I found the available 430. After pondering the oil pan and various other issues I would run into with the big block, I got into the mind set of just freshening up my 300, but the idea sounds less appealing to me by the minute. You've got me thinking again! If I can find a 350 in my area for a decent price that would eliminate a lot of the issues I would have with the 300 or the 430 and parts would be much easier to get ahold of both during and after the swap. Hmmmm...

    Now I find myself coming back around to the oil pan issue. Would the 350 accept my oil pan from the 300? If so, that should clear everything just the same as the 300 does now, correct? Or, would I even need to swap them? I'm guessing that since the 350 was put into so many vehicles as you say, that a donor motor could potentially have a number of different styles of oil pan?

    I appreciate the new view and food for thought. I don't necessarily want/need a big block, but I definitely don't want to stay with a 2bbl 300, so a 350 with a 4bbl might be just the ticket. Time to hit the classifieds some more.

    Thanks to everyone for help and input so far! Please don't run off! I will undoubtedly need more help regardless of what direction I take. I will update as soon as I have a plan.

    Jason

  2. #12
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    All input greatly appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by raycow View Post
    Rjason, if the car were mine, and I wanted to get it back on the road for the least amount of work and $, here is what I would do:

    Look for a 350 in good running condition. This is the most common small block Buick there is, and a lot of them are still around. The 350 will bolt to your stock mounts and to your present transmission. You may need to use the 350 flexplate, as I am not certain whether the 300 and 350 balance is the same. There are probably people in the small block forum who can tell you for sure.

    This swap definitely won't be a bolt-in because you will have to cobble the exhaust for certain, and possibly some of the wiring, piping, and linkage as well. However, the swap will still be far easier than any big block, and even easier than a nailhead unless you can find a complete 64 nailhead car for a parts donor.

    If your stock 300 mounts are bad and you can't find replacements for them, use the mounts and frame brackets that go with the 350. Remove the 300 brackets and lower the 350 into place with the mounts and frame brackets bolted onto it. Mark where the 350 brackets land on the crossmember and bolt or weld them in place as the situation calls for. The 350 was used in A, B, and X-bodies, so you have a very wide selection of frame brackets to choose from. With luck, you will be able to find a set that won't require any welding.

    I know everyone has an opinion and there are surely people who will disagree with mine. However, I am suggesting this swap purely from the standpoint of practicality for a daily driver, not a tire burner.

    Ray
    Thanks Ray, but you're so practical.
    Takes all the drama and excitement out.
    Appreciate the thoughts on mounts as mounts for big blocks are sketchy these days and I think the block bolt holes may be similar.

  3. #13
    rjason Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrerattler7 View Post
    Thanks Ray, but you're so practical.
    Takes all the drama and excitement out.
    Appreciate the thoughts on mounts as mounts for big blocks are sketchy these days and I think the block bolt holes may be similar.
    So, I take it Ray doesn't have you talked into a 350 quite yet, Sabrerattler7?! LOL

  4. #14
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    Want the Sound and Fury of big cubes.

    It just seems like we're trying to push a lot of Iron down the road.
    I also happen to have 2 430s, one well built, and all the parts that could be a running 455, if you do the "High School rebuild." No bore, no new pistons, no turned crank, just lap the valves, put it together, maybe a cam and lifters because that's pretty cheap, do the right things to the oil pump and housing and find a decent carb.
    If you aren't in too much of a hurry Jason, I may get the oil pan issue sraightened out. I ordered a new center drop from TA Perf today to do the mach up. They also had the proper oil pick up arm to go with it.
    Last edited by sabrerattler7; 03-19-2012 at 09:25 PM.

  5. #15
    rjason Guest
    Sabrerattler7,

    I am very interested in seeing how the oil pan and pick-up plays out! The problem I have right now is that my Buick is my daily driver. It still runs, but it is getting a little tired and leaks a little oil, burns a little oil, etc. I've also got a head gasket that is about to give it up I think. Something has to happen, and pretty soon. My first preference would be the 430 swap. I don't own a 430, I just located one for sale that is complete, minus a carb. It looks like a pretty good deal, but is about a 3 hr. drive away from where I live (Texas is a big place)! I would be even further behind if I made a 6hr round trip, blew a bunch of $$ on gas, and dropped more $$ to purchase the 430 then time and $ to tear it down and rebuild (if needed) only to find out that there was no practical/economical way to make it work in my LeSabre.

    My second option was going to be rebuild my 300. But, like I said before, then after time and $ spent, I still have a gazillion pound boat being pushed around by a 300ci engine with a 2bbl carb. Not very appealing.

    Now, as Ray brought up a good point, the 350 is an option. I'm giving it serious thought. It wouldn't be as great as the 430, but a 350 with a 4bbl would certainly be better than the 300 2bbl.

    Jason

  6. #16
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    Well, a 340 or 350 will fit anywhere a 300 will. If this is as daily driver, the down time will be unacceptable for a 430 swap. There are just too many things to address in short time. I think the 300 pan will fit the 340 and 350. The 340 is a stroked 65 300 with a taller deck and the same iron heads. The 350 shares a crank with the 340 (different heads and valve arrangement). The 350 was made from 1968-1980, and there are lots of them out there. That's the way I would go with a daily driver. You will still need to address the exhaust, but it could all be accomplished in a long weekend.
    Last edited by Dr. Frankenbuick; 03-20-2012 at 02:38 PM. Reason: sp
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
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  7. #17
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    Jason, I checked some aftermarket part numbers, and the 300 and 350 take the same oil pan gasket, so you should be good for a pan swap if it becomes necessary. The 350s I worked on all had rear sump pans, but I can't swear that they were all exactly the same shape.

    I would think that a 4 barrel 350 should give you a quite noticeable performance boost over your 300. As for potential, the factory GS350 got up to 315 hp before the govt made car makers lower their CR in order to run on unleaded gas. This of course was "old" hp, before the rating system changed in 1972.

    If you like, I would be happy to check engines for sale locally, but I doubt that you would want to pay the shipping cost from San Francisco!

    Please keep us posted about what you eventually decide to do.

    Ray
    Last edited by raycow; 03-20-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  8. #18
    rjason Guest
    Ray,

    You are correct in regards to the shipping from San Diego!! Lol

    Well, I didn't come across any 340's or 350's for sale, however, I did find one of the '64 aluminum 300 4bbl intakes! As I mentioned before, finding one of these at a reasonable asking price might convince me to stick with the 300. I realize that just upgrading from 2 to 4 barrels won't make a huge difference, but I might just get a little more cam and bump up the compression a little and make the best of it for now.

    Any thoughts as to a decent carb for this set up? CFM? Brand? Will I need adapters to fit some of the more popular 4 barrels? Will I need to make or modify my throttle linkage?

    As usual, nothing set in stone yet. I like to try and consider all aspects before I pull the trigger. Might go the 300 route now and consider attempting the big block conversion a little further down the road when I can afford to take the LeSabre out of service a little longer to do things right.

    Thanks again for everyone's input,
    Jason

  9. #19
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    Oil Pan arrived yesterday

    Fire me an e-mail rivirichnjackie2gmail.com and I'll send photos as I go. I'm not proficient at posting pics on this site. took months to get my two cars into my profile.
    Oil pan is here and I just laid it in hole I dont see clearance problem, but that' not on a block etc. Next step involves moving immobile cars heavy lifting(hood) and its just me and my wife and I'm too old for some of this stuff, so give me a couple days at least.
    Just from visiual, looks like choice of trans is probably going to have as much influence on needed mods as any thing. I know the 200-4R is longer and would involve changing drive shaft. Question is if you can locate engine mounts so trans location doesn't shift.
    If you keep your head and just commute and cruise with it, you could probably run the 300ST for a season til you're ready for more work. The 300ST I have is a switch pitch model and I've heard they're not all that bad. Won't hold up maybe behind a week end racer 430, but for a driver it's not that fragile. I don't know the condition of mine but give me $25.00 and pay shipping and its yours with switch, linkage and torque converter. Nobody around here wants it.

  10. #20
    rjason Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrerattler7 View Post
    Fire me an e-mail rivirichnjackie2gmail.com and I'll send photos as I go. I'm not proficient at posting pics on this site. took months to get my two cars into my profile.
    Oil pan is here and I just laid it in hole I dont see clearance problem, but that' not on a block etc. Next step involves moving immobile cars heavy lifting(hood) and its just me and my wife and I'm too old for some of this stuff, so give me a couple days at least.
    Just from visiual, looks like choice of trans is probably going to have as much influence on needed mods as any thing. I know the 200-4R is longer and would involve changing drive shaft. Question is if you can locate engine mounts so trans location doesn't shift.
    If you keep your head and just commute and cruise with it, you could probably run the 300ST for a season til you're ready for more work. The 300ST I have is a switch pitch model and I've heard they're not all that bad. Won't hold up maybe behind a week end racer 430, but for a driver it's not that fragile. I don't know the condition of mine but give me $25.00 and pay shipping and its yours with switch, linkage and torque converter. Nobody around here wants it.
    E-mail sent.

    Jason

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