From the Reference Section:
- Street Cam Selection Guide
- Buick 455 O.E. Camshafts
- High 10's Secrets for Your Buick 455
- 400/430/455 Poston Cams Grinds and Numbers
- 400/430/455 Kenne-Bell Cams Grinds and Numbers
- Buick 455 Drag Strip Tests from Kenne-Bell
    - Buick 400, 430, 455 Engine Specifications
- Buick Staging Chart
- Differences Between 1970-71 And 1972 and Later Type Block
- Head Flow Chart
- Cam Button
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: 430 Into "64 LeSabre Oil Pan??

  1. #1
    rjason Guest

    430 Into "64 LeSabre Oil Pan??

    Hello everyone,

    I have an opportunity to possibly upgrade to a 430 from my original 300 2bbl! I am about ready to make the leap as I have come across what I believe to be a good candidate for the swap...my question is in regards to the oil pan. The seller of the motor mentioned that he doesn't think the swap is possible due to the drag link location in my LeSabre interfering with the 430's oil pan. I have been trying to do my homework and have learned that there are rear sump and center sump pans for the 430. Which one, if either, could I use on the 430 to clear all of my steering components? Anyone out there put a 400-430-455 into their LeSabre that can give me some tips/advice? As always, thanks so much to the knowledgable people on this site!


    Jason

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,531
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    18
    I think you will need a rear sump pan (like your 300), but I am not an expert on the big cars. Most Buick 455s had a rear sump pan and this will fit the 400/430. You will also need big engine frame mounts (fabricate or adapt from an Electra/Wildcat with a 430 - 67 I think), big block motor mounts, big block springs from a similar year Electra/Wildcat, a ST 400 transmission, driveshaft changes, a new (bigger) fuel system and a different exhaust system. Then you still need the bigger radiator and all the accessory drives and mounts from the 430 (PS, AC, water pump, pulleys, belts). I can think of those obstacles off the top of my head, but there are more that will need resolution and/or purchase. It would be cool in the end, but may be more of a project then you think.
    Last edited by Dr. Frankenbuick; 03-10-2012 at 07:27 AM.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  3. #3
    rjason Guest
    Thanks for the info Dr. Frankenbuick! It helps to have some of the challenges laid out in front of you in order to plan and scheme ways to overcome them. The motor is quite complete including accessories, brackets, etc. and even an ST400 tranny still attached. I have some good friends/co-workers who weld and fabricate to help me out with things like the frame mounts. Cooling and fuel system will be a bit of an obstacle. I am not a huge fan of the high dollar aluminum radiator with electric fans thing. I would prefer something a little more affordable and stock looking. Any suggestions? Also, I would assume the fuel supply mods would simply require a larger supply line from the tank and an appropriate pump? The engine has a stock 4bbl intake on it, but no carb. Can you recommend one? Would you go aftermarket or should I just try to find an original Carter?

    Thanks again for the imput.

    Jason

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,531
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    18
    Jason,

    Your frame is very similar to the Wildcat and Electra from that year. I would see if the dimensions of those radiators or a few years after are similar to yours.

    Big block equipped Buicks had 3/8" fuel lines and 3/8" pick-ups in the tank. You will need a Wildcat or Electra pick-up from your year and may need a return line from the pump to the tank if you are AC equipped. I think you will find your lines and pick-up are 5/16".

    The Buick 400, 430 and 455 all came with a Rodchester Quadrajet. There are replacements made for that carb and rebuilt originals available. I would use one with 800-850 CFM. Price may be your determinate here. Shop around at Jegs and Summit and see what fits at a good price.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    42
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    0

    I'm hot to do the same swap.

    I've got a 65 2 Dr hardtop and I started down the same track. The 300 is a very small center drop oil pan and the 430 Rivieras were a center drop pan but too big to fit like 3 inches. I have a rear drop pan for a 455 (will fit a 430) but my guessing is its not far enough back to clear that center link.
    Big buck solution is a Flaming river rear steer Rack and pinion for a 65 Impala $1200+ with mount which would still need minor mod to go an Buick.
    Where are you? Sounds like we should work on this together. I'm in So. AZ. I posted this problem about 6 months ago and didn't get much response.
    When Buick made the Wildcats they used the Electra frame with the LeSabre body firewall back. So the front fenders are 3 1/2 in longer, hood is different, and they got the extra space in the eng compartment. I'd like to hear from a Wildcat owner about what pan they have and where it fits the steering. Of course those were also nailheads so it may not apply.
    For right now I've chickened out and found a Aluminum heads and 4 barrel manifold 300 and will distract myself fixing that until I can get more solutions on the big block swap. I have a 69 Rivi to take radiator, A/C stuff etc out of. I'm thinking depending on how well your 430 engine is built and how you drive you might want to think about a stronger rear end, at least a posi conversion into a 8:25 which is available for the 65.
    I'm running 800cfm electric choke Edlebrock Performer on my 430 Rivi and love it. Made it a new car from the "re-built" Quadraflood carb by Noah.

  6. #6
    rjason Guest
    Hey Sabrerattler7,

    I have been thinking more about my (and your) problem. You mentioned that the 430 Rivi's had a center drop pan, but it might be too deep. I'm considering the possibility of getting my hands on one and comparing to the overall size and shape of my 300 pan. The thought I am having is wether or not it would be feasible to do a little cutting and splicing. The idea would be to use the Rivi's 430 pan but cut the drop portion out and either fab a shorter drop to weld back in it's place or cut the drop from the 300 and weld it in. The question, I suppose, would be wether or not the drop would be in the correct place to clear everything even if made shorter (shallower) and then just modify the pick-up to fit the custom pan. Let me know your thoughts on that, you too Dr. Frankenbuick (and anyone else willing to chime in) if you don't mind.

    On a different note, I am also considering the option of just rebuilding the 300 I've got in it now. A couple of things are making me a little hesitant to do so. First, there just aren't a lot of parts or options available for this engine. Especially my '64 aluminum head, 2bbl version. I'm not looking to make this thing a hotrod or anything, I just need reliability with decent torque/power as it is my daily driver. No one even makes or even rebuilds the crazy motor mounts! The second thing holding me back on the 300 is that I don't want to spend time/money/energy going through this motor and rebuilding/replacing (not to mention finding) parts. And when the smoke clears, I've still got a low compression, 2bbl, small displacement engine pushing around my huge 4 door cruiser. And if/when something breaks or wears out I have to hunt all over again.

    Sorry to write a book, but when I consider all of these things, it makes the 430 option seem like a no brainer even with the mods and fab work that it might require. If I could get my hands on a '64 aluminum 4bbl intake for a reasonable price, it might sway my decision a little more to the 300 side, but as it stands I'm leaning towards the 430.

    Hey! Anybody got a good running 401 or 425 Nailhead just sitting around they want to donate to the cause?!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    42
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    0

    Friggin Details Problem for soaring eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by rjason View Post
    Hey Sabrerattler7,

    I have been thinking more about my (and your) problem. You mentioned that the 430 Rivi's had a center drop pan, but it might be too deep. I'm considering the possibility of getting my hands on one and comparing to the overall size and shape of my 300 pan. The thought I am having is wether or not it would be feasible to do a little cutting and splicing. The idea would be to use the Rivi's 430 pan but cut the drop portion out and either fab a shorter drop to weld back in it's place or cut the drop from the 300 and weld it in. The question, I suppose, would be wether or not the drop would be in the correct place to clear everything even if made shorter (shallower) and then just modify the pick-up to fit the custom pan. Let me know your thoughts on that, you too Dr. Frankenbuick (and anyone else willing to chime in) if you don't min
    On a different note, I am also considering the option of just rebuilding the 300 I've got in it now. A couple of things are making me a little hesitant to do so. First, there just aren't a lot of parts or options available for this engine. Especially my '64 aluminum head, 2bbl version. I'm not looking to make this thing a hotrod or anything, I just need reliability with decent torque/power as it is my daily driver. No one even makes or even rebuilds the crazy motor mounts! The second thing holding me back on the 300 is that I don't want to spend time/money/energy going through this motor and rebuilding/replacing (not to mention finding) parts. And when the smoke clears, I've still got a low compression, 2bbl, small displacement engine pushing around my huge 4 door cruiser. And if/when something breaks or wears out I have to hunt all over again.


    ATTENTION
    I don't think it's just a depth problem. I'll go get measurements. 430 Riviera center drop is longer and wider than 300. Wider doesn't matter but longer does a bunch, plus I don't know how much fore aft move there is in the center link as you steer. I also contemplated cut and weld, but the drop is there to add volume of oil for big block and to fit the big pick up screen. I haven't compared pick up screens as yet because I haven't taken pan off 300.

    WHOOPS SCREEN SCREW UP THOUGHT I WAS AT END


    Sorry to write a book, but when I consider all of these things, it makes the 430 option seem like a no brainer even with the mods and fab work that it might require. If I could get my hands on a '64 aluminum 4bbl intake for a reasonable price, it might sway my decision a little more to the 300 side, but as it stands I'm leaning towards the 430.

    Hey! Anybody got a good running 401 or 425 Nailhead just sitting around they want to donate to the cause?!
    My motivations are similar to yours but at heart I'm a hot rodder and I want it to smoke the tires while being a reliable driver.
    Still didn't say where you are? Would make logistics for joint projects possible or not.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    42
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    0

    Optical illusion

    Hi again.
    I hauled out the engines best I could and made some measurements.
    300 Pan Drop aprox. 6.5-6.75 Square. Drop stars 1.5" rear of motor mount centerline, ends 8.5" back.

    430-455 Pan drop is aprox 6.5" long but 9" wide.
    My engine has no motor mounts yet. Pan drop starts less than 1" back of center of mount bolt holes and goes back 7"

    To do better I need to get center drop loose big block pan hang it on a raw 455 block I have, extract the eng hoist, move a couple cars to get at the LeSabre, pull the hood and hang the proposal in the hole. In other words, isn't going to happen now, but maybe soon.

    Please see post I put on small blocks section sme time ago.
    Last edited by sabrerattler7; 03-18-2012 at 02:02 PM. Reason: additional

  9. #9
    rjason Guest
    Sorry Sabrerattler7,

    I forgot to say, I'm just outside of Dallas, TX. A bit of a drive for either of us to work on our projects! lol

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SanFran CA
    Posts
    1,155
    My Feedback

    (0% Positive Feedback)
    Rep Power
    0
    Rjason, if the car were mine, and I wanted to get it back on the road for the least amount of work and $, here is what I would do:

    Look for a 350 in good running condition. This is the most common small block Buick there is, and a lot of them are still around. The 350 will bolt to your stock mounts and to your present transmission. You may need to use the 350 flexplate, as I am not certain whether the 300 and 350 balance is the same. There are probably people in the small block forum who can tell you for sure.

    This swap definitely won't be a bolt-in because you will have to cobble the exhaust for certain, and possibly some of the wiring, piping, and linkage as well. However, the swap will still be far easier than any big block, and even easier than a nailhead unless you can find a complete 64 nailhead car for a parts donor.

    If your stock 300 mounts are bad and you can't find replacements for them, use the mounts and frame brackets that go with the 350. Remove the 300 brackets and lower the 350 into place with the mounts and frame brackets bolted onto it. Mark where the 350 brackets land on the crossmember and bolt or weld them in place as the situation calls for. The 350 was used in A, B, and X-bodies, so you have a very wide selection of frame brackets to choose from. With luck, you will be able to find a set that won't require any welding.

    I know everyone has an opinion and there are surely people who will disagree with mine. However, I am suggesting this swap purely from the standpoint of practicality for a daily driver, not a tire burner.

    Ray

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-27-2012, 07:07 PM
  2. 1966 LeSabre sport coupe "400 package" ovearall production ??
    By piter69A in forum Buick Identification and Decoding
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-31-2011, 04:00 AM
  3. Is "Riviera" synonymous with "hardtop"?
    By Gas Giant in forum Interiors, Trim, Glass and Tops
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-04-2010, 07:47 PM
  4. 96 LeSabre won't start until "Security" light goes off
    By CRahe in forum Electrical and Gauges
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-16-2006, 11:33 AM
  5. "Shop" or "Assembly" Manual for 1962 Invicta
    By Adam Bernstein in forum Nailhead: 264, 322, 364, 401, 425
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-26-2003, 12:54 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
TeamBuick.com Privacy Policy