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Thread: Early vs late 67 430 - how do you tell'em apart?

  1. #1
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    Question Early vs late 67 430 - how do you tell'em apart?

    Dear Team Buick members ,

    A Buick 430 V-8 . . . and it's mine - all mine!

    I have successfully purchased a 430 that came out of a 1967 Buick Electra 225. I started to research rebuild kits for this engine and EGGE Machine Company has two different versions of their rebuild kit: Early 67 and 67-68 http://www.egge.com/kits?make=BUICK&year=1967. Kantor Auto on the other hand has a single kit for the 67 http://www.kanter.com///productdetai...at=31&Prc=1660. So reassuring when different aftermarket manufacturers provide "consistent" information about Buick engines.

    Has anyone heard of a difference between 430 engines built in 1967? If so, how would I identify an early versus late 430? I haven't had a chance to inspect the engine, but will do so tomorrow so I can read-off casting numbers and that sort of good stuff like that.

    Thanks for all the help from the Team Buick gurus!

    Cheers, Edouard

    P.S. Should I go back to the donor car and get the data off of the builder plates. Is that info I'll need to have in order to care for the engine?
    Caretaker of a 1965 Buick Special "billy goat"!

  2. #2
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    I would call or email them and ask what is different about the kits. The early kit did not have rockers assemblies, but all other part#s matched in the kits. I am not aware of any changes in the 400/430 in 67 and my chsssis service manual does not warn of any changes mid year.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  3. #3
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    The 1967 430 has different width rocker arms than the 68 and 69. Looking at the beams from the top you will notice that they curve slightly, one to the left and the other to the right. The part numbers are 1381261 and 1381217. All other years use straight rockers.
    The rocker shaft is also a different length.
    Last edited by pmuller9; 01-26-2011 at 10:43 AM.

  4. #4
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    Block casting number is listed as 68-69: 1381825

    Dear Steve, Paul, and other Team Buick members,

    I'm back from my first careful look at my baby! Do I have baby pictures you ask? . . . of course! http://gallery.me.com/elagache#100036.

    Here is a picture of the casting number:

    I read this as 1381825. Checking the handy-dandy Big Block casting numbers list from Team Buick: http://www.teambuick.com/forums/view.php?pg=casting_numbers_big_block, it reads as a 68-69 casting. So I suppose this must be a late 67 430.

    I assume from Paul's comments that this engine must use the straight rockers. Is there likely to be anything else that would be different if this is the 68-69 casting?

    Thanks to all for your help as this engine swap caper unfolds!

    Cheers, Edouard
    Caretaker of a 1965 Buick Special "billy goat"!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by elagache View Post
    I assume from Paul's comments that this engine must use the straight rockers. Is there likely to be anything else that would be different if this is the 68-69 casting?

    Cheers, Edouard
    The head castings have the same dimensions. The rockers and shafts are different between 67 and 68/69, but early and late rockers/shafts can be swapped between the engines as complete units. I found in some reading that the later shaft/rocker assembly was stronger. You may be able to reuse your shafts and/or rockers depending on wear and cam selection.

    You will also need a rear sump pan and pick-up tube to make this fit in the A-body engine cradle (I see yours is a mid-sump).
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

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    Dr. Frankenbuick to the rescue again!

    Thank you Steve for your elaboration!

    Always feel better when Dr. Frankenbuick is on the case!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Frankenbuick View Post
    The head castings have the same dimensions. The rockers and shafts are different between 67 and 68/69, but early and late rockers/shafts can be swapped between the engines as complete units. I found in some reading that the later shaft/rocker assembly was stronger. You may be able to reuse your shafts and/or rockers depending on wear and cam selection.
    I now have the number of the head casting: 1382985. However, it seems that further work on engine will be on hold as other features of this conversion caper are worked out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Frankenbuick View Post
    You will also need a rear sump pan and pick-up tube to make this fit in the A-body engine cradle (I see yours is a mid-sump).
    Hmm, I must confess I have no idea what this means. So in desperation, I grab the TA-Performance catalog and . . . ahh, rear sump oil pans. So I assume I can indeed purchase something from TA-Performance's generous offerings and that will get me unstuck from this one - right?

    I thought I might launch a new thread once the rebuild actually gets started, but for now - I'll try not to hog Team-Buick too much more!

    Thanks for all the help and for this forum that makes it all possible!

    Cheers, Edouard
    Caretaker of a 1965 Buick Special "billy goat"!

  7. #7
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    Edouard,

    I would look in the classified, or post an ad, for a used rear sump pan and pick-up tube. Most of the 455s had them, and some of the 400s and 430s also had them (they will all fit your 430). The 71 and up 455 had the larger 5/8" pick-up tube you will want. There is no need to spend a small fortune from TA for a part that is readily available used. TA will have the frame mounts you will need (less available), or you might find them used as well. They are basicly 67 GS 400 mounts.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

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    Thanks, I'll do that!

    Hi Steve,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Frankenbuick View Post
    I would look in the classified, or post an ad, for a used rear sump pan and pick-up tube. Most of the 455s had them, and some of the 400s and 430s also had them (they will all fit your 430). The 71 and up 455 had the larger 5/8" pick-up tube you will want. There is no need to spend a small fortune from TA for a part that is readily available used. TA will have the frame mounts you will need (less available), or you might find them used as well. They are basicly 67 GS 400 mounts.
    Thanks for the good advice! To be honest, I was just using the TA-Performance catalog to understand what was the difference between a rear and mid sump! I hadn't started to imagine how to actually get hold of the parts. There are times when new parts are required, but indeed, not a lot of moving parts in the oil pan! Thanks for noting the larger pick-up tube in the 71 and later models - I would have never known about this!

    Thanks to all on Team-Buick for contributing to the success of this conversion caper!

    Cheers, Edouard
    Caretaker of a 1965 Buick Special "billy goat"!

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