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Thread: The Boat Tail Riviera was supposed to be ...

  1. #1

    The Boat Tail Riviera was supposed to be ...

    an A-body car?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


    http://ateupwithmotor.com/index.php?...xury&Itemid=68
    "The original plan was for the third-generation to switch from the E-body shell (shared with the contemporary Oldsmobile Toronado and Cadillac Eldorado) to the smaller A-platform of Buick's Special and Skylark intermediates. Had things gone according to plan, it probably would have ended up something like the 1969-1970 Pontiac Grand Prix or the 1970 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, which used a stretch "A-Special" version of the intermediate chassis, with a heroically long hood.

    Unfortunately for Mitchell and Hirschberg, Buick general manager Bob Kessler, who had approved the original boattail design, was replaced in late 1969 by Lee Mays, formerly the general sales manager of Chevrolet. Mays was deeply conservative, and he neither liked nor understood personal luxury cars. Mays despised the boattail design, and while it was too late to order a complete redesign, he determined that Buick was not going to invest in a lot of unique tooling for a car he was certain would be a flop.
    "


    can you IMAGINE this? damn, i wish i had money. take a Grand Prix frame and form all new sheet metal....


    has anybody ever seen any of the design mock-ups for the A-body version?
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  2. #2
    hrrrmmm. the design sketch is a bit too cartoonish ... but it shows possibilities.




    http://www.buick-riviera.com/houlihan_history.html


    the drawings in this article look more reasonable:
    http://rivowners.org/features/evolution/evpt71a.html
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  3. #3
    Fascinating!

    How cool of a retro would that be to use this concept sketch for a modern build - retro-recreation of the Riviera!
    _________________
    ROA 11755
    65 Riviera GS
    Black/Black (restore in process)
    See dyno break-in run here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuIKyzct4Sc
    See first dyno pull after overhaul here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGYfCwEvO8

    86 LX Police Interceptor (SS) 5.0 Mustang
    (wifes drag car)

  4. #4
    this question is WAY out there ...

    but would anybody be able to get ahold of Jerry Hirschberg, Don DeHarsh or John Houlihan? it would be fantastic if we could get some pictures of the clay models or the design drawings that the modellers were working from.

    and forget about sheet metal. i guess it would almost be better to do this in carbon fiber or glass.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  5. #5
    I dunno... But perhaps a phone call to the ROA might get you started??? They might even help.

    You really thinking of takeing this on as a project?

    Erik
    _________________
    ROA 11755
    65 Riviera GS
    Black/Black (restore in process)
    See dyno break-in run here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuIKyzct4Sc
    See first dyno pull after overhaul here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGYfCwEvO8

    86 LX Police Interceptor (SS) 5.0 Mustang
    (wifes drag car)

  6. #6
    You really thinking of takeing this on as a project?



    i got the Billy Idol blues ... no "Money, Money".

    i just figured it would be tres cool to see the mockups of what the car was SUPPOSED to look like.
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  7. Important corrections

    Hey guys,

    I'm the author of the "Das Boot" article. I wanted to let you all know that I've recently found it contained some pretty significant errors, and I've just revised it extensively (same link as before: http://ateupwithmotor.com/luxury-and...-boattail.html).

    First, according to John Houlihan (part of the Buick design studio at that time) was actually GM president Ed Cole, not Lee Mays, who ordered the boat-tail switched to the B-body. Houlihan says that Cole's big concern was cost: as it was originally designed, the boat-tail called for all or mostly all-new glass (including a swoopy V windshield), and a lot of new body panels, which was going to be expensive. (It's interesting to note that there was a similar argument over the car that became the '66 Toronado; Bill Mitchell also wanted that to use the A-body, but Ed Cole and Jack Gordon said it had to share the Riviera's body shell for cost reasons.)

    The idea that the boat-tail was going to be an A-special like the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo was more speculation than fact; I lept to that conclusion based on John Houlihan's comment that it was going to be on the A-platform, but somewhat bigger than a Skylark. Part of the reason the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo were approved was that they reused a great deal of the glass and stampings from the Le Mans and Chevelle hardtops, so they didn't add that much to Pontiac and Chevrolet's tooling costs. Houlihan's comments to Ray Knott (see here: http://rivowners.org/features/evolution/evpt71a.html) imply that the boat-tail wouldn't have had that kind of commonality with the Skylark.

    Anyway, I'm embarrassed to have spread some off-base information, and I wanted to update boat-tail fans about it.

    Thanks for your patience...

  8. #8
    no problem, we're glad to have you.

    you have some fascinating articles on your website.



    I'm the author of the "Das Boot" article.

    one other thing though, "Das Boot" was the title of an article some years ago in a hot rod magazine about the early/mid-70s Electra, not the Riv.

    it used to be hosted online but i can't find it now...
    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    Government schooling is about "the perfect organization of the hive."
    H.H. Goddard, Human Efficiency (1920)

  9. I haven't read it, but I'm not surprised. I thought it was more apt for the Riviera, given the boat-tail.

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