Cooling problems - 263 in 1950 56R

[n1gzd]

Hi,

I have been trying to solve a cooling problem with my 263. Would a fan like this one help? (my stock one has 4 blades). Would this fan fit. It looks like it would.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1940s...spagenameZWDVW

My problem is this:

The engine is overheating (especially on hot days) primarily if I just came off the highway). On an average temperature day if I just drive down a road at about 30 mph (not highway) the temperature might get a little past the half way mark on the gauge (ok). However, if I drive on a highway (for example 60 mph) the temperature climbs up and gets pretty warm on the high way, but never red line (perhaps within a needle width of the white hot end of the white stripe in the center of the gauge (3/4 towards red line?). Anyway, if I then come off the high way and get stuck in a traffic jam (even a pretty short one that is a few miles off the highway) then the needle pretty quickly reaches the top of the gauge and the radiator boils over (engine overheat).

I am thinking the following things:

1) it is possible that these engines really never did cool very well and most driving was not on the highway. However, I would have expected that cooling would be find on the highway because there is more wind hitting the radiator. I did send the radiator out to get boiled, flow checked and pressure checked and they said that it was fine.
2) Is it possible that if the radiator efficiency is 10% worse than when the car was new, and the water pump impellors are 10% less effiicient than when the car was new, and if the engine/transmission water jacket passages are 10% more clogged than when the car was new that it would be just enough reduction in cooling that I would have trouble now and then?
3) I should re-check check the timing. If it is too advanced perhaps the engine is running hotter than it should.
4) Would a different fan help? As far as I can tell my car is not supposed to have a shroud. Has anyone ever added one and found that it helps a lot?
5) I think that "back in the day" people used to run straight water in the summer. According to what I have read I might get 30 or 40 degrees cooler if I ran straight water with something like RedLine water wetter in the summer (and then 50/50 in the winter). Were these engines meant to be cooled with water in the summer?

Any other suggestions?

Rebecca

[n1gzd]

Also, has anyone ever resorted to using a 6v electric fan? That would be ugly but perhaps I have no choice. What have other people done?

Rebecca

[njlimbaugh]

In spite of 'global warming' (?) the world wasn't any hotter 50 years ago than it is today, at least as far as your Buick is concerned. Therefore I don't think that 'souping up' your cooling system is really called for. Check everything once more. Has the block been reverse-flushed? And the radiator? Is the thermostat new? How are the hoses? I've seen hoses that were partially collapsed inside which restricts flow. Is the fan belt snug? Fans do nothing except at slow speeds. We used to take them off to gain a few horsepower, just being careful not to let the car idle for long. As you mentioned, double check the timing. Is the engine running lean? Don't use water in the system. Modern antifreeze is superior in all respects. Check your pressure cap on the radiator. If it isn't working properly your boiling point will be reduced; the boiling point is increased 3 degrees for every pound of pressure in the system. Can anybody think of something I've missed? Good luck!

[n1gzd]

Well, we do a lot more highway driving now (that is when I seem to have the most trouble).

Thermostat is new (170 deg, I am going to switch it to a 160 deg one but I don't think that it will make much of a difference). I know that the thermostat is working because hot coolant is flowing though it (and steam blows out the overflow if it over heats).

The hoses are new and are not collapsed.
The radiator show that boiled and tested my radiator says that it is fine.
I have a new radiator cap that does not appear to leak no steam comes out of it (only out the overflow). Also, it is not boiling over because of the pressure being too low (the temperature gauge is indeed hitting red line - all the way to the right).

I have flushed the system but I probably could have done a better job. Are those flushing products ok to use in this engine?

I thought that water had superior heat transfer (but no freeze protection). I thought that this was the reason why race cars use water and why the water wetter products have a little chart that shows how much better cooling you would have with only water (must still add lubricant for water pump).

I would rather use coolant of course.

Thanks,

Rebecca

[alleycat]

'Becca, here is the basic, bottom line to your cooling problem: you are absolutly correct in that the str8's did'nt cool very well "back in the day". When the 263 eventually got into cars the problem was reduced but not solved, so, you have the best engine from that standpoint. Way back when, almost everything had a cooling problem, it was just part of the motoring expierience. So no big deal. Now its not so great of an expierience. And, you are also right in that if everything is "10%" degraded, it just makes the problem worse! The main problem is that the rear of the engine does not get much coolent flow, the front gets too much. Not a easy fix.

So, do this: look at the condition of the coolent in there now. If it is scrungy and rusty, etc, flush and clean. Check on the thermostat. Add strong mix of antifreeze & water, perhaps the "water wetter" stuff as well. Crank up the timing! Todays "reformulated" gas, is horriable stuff. The timing specs and curves on engines much older than two days old, don't work. I end up cranking 20 to 25 degrees of inital advance in to all my "older" engines, restricting the vac advance and centrifgal advance, sometimes allowing only about 10 degrees on the centrifugal. Totaly reverse of 30 or so years ago. The stuff just won't burn, and if its lit off late most of the heat is happining when the piston is way down the bore and likely going out the exhaust. The heat soaks in to the block, and the cooling system can't take it. To do the timing by cranking the distributor max advance, the bolt will be at the end of the slot on the housing. It likely won't be enough but its a start. Try it. Alleycat

[n1gzd]

I am going to try and solve this problem but I still have this question:

How bad is it for this engine to boil over now and then? What I am saying is that if now and then for a few minutes it over heats before I get a chance to shut it down, is this something that this engine can take or should I worry that I might have damaged the engine every time it happens? The two times that it happened so far I did not loose very much coolant and the only thing that happened is some steam came out the overflow. The engine sounded fine at the time (no rapping etc).

I know that it is not good but I would like to understand how serious this is or was this something that happened often "back in the day".

Also, what do you think about my 5 bladed fan idea (earlier link)?

I have drained the coolant out of my engine many times (for various reasons) and it always looks clean and green (not brown and rusty and no chunks of stuff in it).

Are those flushing products safe to use?

What about the idea of sending out my spare Harrison radiator out for a new core (perhaps a deeper one with a more modern design)? Would that help?

Regarding, timing. I would have expected that advancing the timing too much would cause a burnt valve problem (explosion before exhaust valve closed).

On the other hand, to change the subject slightly, I advanced the timing a bit on my 58 Desoto because I thought it ran a little better that way. I might have by trial and error come to the same conclusion that you have (but I did not know why).

Thanks for your comments.

Rebecca

Rebecca

[LowBlowJoe]

my 8 was always overheating. so i tried a flex fan. think it had 6-8 blades. it made no real difference. i went with a 3500 CFM electric fan. put it on the front of the radiator and made it push air in. put it high up, cuz it doesnt get much air flow where the coffin nose covers the radiator. i havent overheated since.

[n1gzd]

What electric fan did you use (brand name, where did you get it etc). Is it 6v?

I will consider this as a last resort. I have to say that other st 8 buick owners that i have met locally have reported similar problems (especially traffic jams and parades).

Rebecca

[knuckle]

radiator clogged up ? the cooling netting it works as a filters,it is small flowing through of engine coolsystem, remains rust soil hang. water pump pumps waters to the upper waters box and bubble over and engine overheat.
I had the same problem.

[Aaron65]

I think you're in the same boat as most owners, Rebecca. My 263 has a recored radiator, rebuilt engine, spot on timing (not set up as Alleycat suggests, although I agree with him about the dog **** they call gas), a 160 degree thermostat, etc. It runs about 1/3 up the guage around town. If I get it on the freeway and go 65-70, the gauge creeps up...after almost an hour of driving, it's half way up the gauge. If I get off the freeway and idle at this point, it's not cooling back down, it will start to rise and get above the normal band if idled long enough...verdict? In my opinion, these things were built before freeways, and were meant for 55 MPH cruising speeds...get em going faster, and the cooling system can't keep up. I saw a car similar to mine with an electric fan mounted like Joe said, so this would probably be a great fix. Wire in a thermostatic switch or just a manual one for when it starts to warm up...I'm considering it, but I don't think an occasional boil over is going to hurt anything...you know from Alleycat that they did that when new...

Aaron