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Thread: Do nailheads tend to run warm?

  1. #1

    Do nailheads tend to run warm?

    Haven,t been on the board in over a year but my favorite place to ask nailhead questions. I have a 59 buick that I am building for my son. I used a 65 riveria mtor and trans[s/p 400} and converted to open drive. The motor,trans,brakes,radiator,rearend,are all new. I am having a few problems and I believe theyt are all related. The car does not over heat but I installed a puck tank because it wouls puke up alittle. It has a 180 degree stat and a 14-17 lb cap. The car seems to be vapor locking. When it 's warmed up it pops a little through the carb if you give it the gas quick. If you feather into it it does not. I alklo have a fan shroud and a new fan clutch. Once iot warms up the tranny seems to take off in high gear. If I pull it down into gear with lever it doesn't it it as bad. I have the factory steel tranny lines run where they were from the factory next to the frame and tie into the radiator. should I put an aux. trans cooler on the car? I am a little frustrated right now and can't reason the problem out. Any ideas? I can;t turn my son loose in it because it's not dependable. Help! Thanks in advance TP

  2. #2
    How is your timing and ignition curve?
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  3. #3
    I need to recheck that. When I built the motor and installed[couple of months back} it was right on the money. That is unless I have the wrong amount. What should it be?

  4. #4
    It is either 2.5* or 4* BTDC for initial timing (vacuum disconnected at idle). You do not want more then 32* total timing with the vacuum disconnected above 4000 rpm. Total timing is initial timing plus mechanical advance. Total timing can be off even though your initial timing is set correctly.

    You can use a dial-back timing light or make a 30* BTDC mark to on the balancer to determine total timing. Standing in front of the car using a tape measure, put a mark on the balancer 1.75" (1 3/4") to the right of the timing mark indicator. This mark should not exceed 2*-4* on the timing indicator when engine is at or above the rpm where full mechanical advance is reached (generally above 4000 rpm on a stock distributor curve). There is a problem with the mechanical advance if the 30* mark is much higher or much lower then 2*-4* indicator above 4000 rpm.

    Inefficiency from too much or too little total timing can cause excessive heat. Too much total timing is often caused by the loss of the bushing that limits the mechanical advance weights. The bushing is on the underside of the weight plate on a pin. They crack and/or vibrate off over time. Sticking or binding weights causes too little total timing.

    At least that gives you something to check.

    Last edited by Dr. Frankenbuick; 06-09-2007 at 06:05 AM.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  5. #5
    frankenbuick, I am using a 65 rivi motor and my chiltons tells me it should be 12 btdc. I checked it and it was 16. That could be part if not all of the problem. The distributor was re-bult and I am using HEI type dizzy. Thanks for the information. I am going to save and referance back to it. TP

  6. #6
    The stock 65 buick 401/425 initial setting is 2.5* BTDC in my Buick Chassis Service Manual and in the information on our site here. The 64-66 425 2x4 and the 66 GS 401 Quadrajet equipped cars had a 12* initial setting distributor that had less mechanical advance then the stock 401/425 distributor. I would be sure to check your total timing as described. You may be in detonation territory.

    Last edited by Dr. Frankenbuick; 06-09-2007 at 11:18 AM.
    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  7. #7
    Sorry, but I have to get in on this & throw in my dimes worth. Most "NailHead" distributors that have 2 1/2* of initial advance have 15* of mechanical advance built into the distributor. This 15* in the dist. is 1/2 of crank degrees. In other words with the 2 1/2 initial & the 30* mechanical you will have a total at the crank of 32 1/2*. On the 2x4 & early 401 dist. they had 12* initial with a built in mechanical advance of 10*(20* at the crank) so 12+20*=32*. So, same,same they just come in at different RPM's. Then you add vacuum adavance you could end up with a total of both 50*-56*. The factory did the best they could for the masses which was a definate comprimise for performance & they added vacuum advance to help with fuel mileage. For most of us hot rod types we want the advance in much sooner than stock. Also the more initial advance you have at idle (to an extent) the better the "Launch" & throttle response at lower RPM's. The reason the 2x4 dist. have 12* initial. In actuality the "NailHeads" have a very good combustion chamber design that doesn't require as most advance as most others with the "Pent Roof" combustion chamber. It's so good in fact a lot of today's higher pperformance cars have a "Pent Roof" combustion chamber. They can run higher compression ratios with the poorer quality of fuel today. With all that being said I feel ideal total mechanical timing for most "NailHeads" is 36* all in by 24-2800RPM's & retards 4* above 3800RPM's. Most set them at 32* total because they can't figure out how to make it retard without electronis. One thing I did notice on my car with the timing as stated when I added 10* of vacuum advance not only did MPG improve but the coolant temp was 10* lower. Just another thought. Also, about the "Popping". Sounds to me to be slightly on the lean side. This would also make it run hotter.

    Tom T.

  8. #8
    ok, I'm back. I set the dizzy at 12* btdc and total is about 34*. I ran it hard and for about 60 miles here in the hot houston son. The car did not puke at all this time and runs cooler. I also found a bad spark plug wire end and insulated my fuel lines. My tranny is now acting fine and the car runs good. I have a 2:73 gear in it and it eats the road up. I also drilled a 1/8" bypass hole in the edge of the thermostat. Don't really know if any one thing did the job ,but it runs good now. Thanmks for all the input fellas. TP

  9. #9
    Maybe between the occasional misfire and a little too much timing the engine was building heat? I am glad to hear it is running better. It is so nice to have one run well after running poorly.

    Steve B.



    67 GS 525 Buick Stage IV
    66 GS Convertible
    65 GS HT
    63 Riv
    02 Subaru WRX Turbo
    03 Ford Cobra Convertible (Factory Supercharged)

  10. #10
    yep. more smiles pure mile now. I went to an outting last night and a young fella had a 29 roadster pickup with a 3x2 364 nailhead in it. That helped make my day also.

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