401 (or other Buick) engine transplant for 65 Buick Special - opinions?
Dear Buick Enthusiasts, :shield:
I have a 1965 Buick Special Deluxe wagon with a 300 cu V8 engine that is getting weary. I joined Team Buick in order to get some advice on rebuilding the engine and truly discovered how little really I understood about the whole project! :confused:
In that thread (http://www.teambuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19792), BigRivy suggested if I consider any alternative engine, I should try to stick to period Buick engines: specifically the 401 Nailhead. Having learned plenty in the interim, I have to confess some interest in the 401 upgrade. Aside from the obvious - more - appeal :bgrin:, the Nailhead has a much larger following and many more enhancement parts. Perhaps not so obvious is that with its stock compression ratio of 10.25:1, it should run nicely on today's anemic premium gas (the original 11:1 high-compression 300 won't). My surfing the web uncovered one more unexpected benefit: the Nailhead equipped 1965 Skylark GS got 12.2 mpg at the time. My car was rated 12.7 (and indeed that was accurate). 100 more hp and almost the same gas mileage - where do I sign! :laugh_3:
So enough daydreaming. Obviously it must be possible to put a 401 Nailhead in a 65 A-body since Buick did it. My question is: can you make a Nailhead transplant into a car originally equipped with something else? Is it "reasonably straightforward" or a pain in the whatever expletive you prefer to delete. Reading around the forum, it seems like the engine mounting points should be the same and that it should be possible to bolt the Nailhead to my transmission without adapters - true? The car already has the heavy duty radiator, would additional cooling upgrades be desirable? Looking at photos of the 65 Skylark GS engine compartment, the only difference I could see was that the battery has been moved to the driver's side. Are there other gotchas in making such a transplant that aren't obvious?
Has anybody else performed this transplant? Why or why not? What do the 1965 Skylark GS folks think about their cars and engines?
Obviously this is still more daydreaming than not and my wallet may veto the horsepower upgrade. Still, I would be interested in what folks think about the idea.
Thanks for any and all pearls of wisdom!
Sincerely,
Edouard in Orinda
P.S. Discussion later expands to consider other late 60s Buick V8 engines like the 350 and 455 - see below:
Okay, how about a Buick 350 transplant then?
Dear Tom,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
telriv
Although I'm a "Nail" guy there are MANY things that have to be changed in order to install a "Nail"
Thanks for your feedback. My inexperience is showing, as I had hoped it wasn't that drastic an operation. Golly, you are making up my mind in a hurry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
telriv
Much easier to install a Buick 350 than a "Nail".
I may be just as sorry to ask this, but is truly "easy enough" to make aiming for a Buick 350 worth considering? The stock performance of the Buick 350 wasn't that much better than the existing 300 cu V8, but it is far more popular engine, so it offers many more possibilities.
Thanks again for your feedback,
Sincerely, Edouard
Thanks, indeed much more to think about!
Dear Steve (Dr. FrankenBuick), BigRivy, and all, :thumbsup:
Thanks so much for some short but incredibly important comments! Indeed, I now have some much clearer choices and a practical path to pursue either way.
To help folks (if it can be called help! :bgrin:) I created a blog entry that describes my thinking up to roughly to this moment http://www.teambuick.com/forums/blog.php?b=134. It also has a cute picture of my Buick wagon as "moving van" :car:
The nitty gritty details that matter is that this car has gotten some modifications along the way. I can't put in a TH350 transmission without replacing the one that's already there! Also, along the way I've had miserable struggles with the original Carter AFB carburetor. Right now the car has a Edelbrock Thunder carburetor (1801). Since the car is at the body shop, I can't be sure, but I'm almost certain that the car has the crossflow radiator as its heavy-duty radiator upgrade.
Thanks to BigRivy, I now have the pointers so that I can specify the 300 cid V8 be rebuilt to its original factory specifications (or modestly enhanced.)
Thanks to Dr. FrankenBuick, I can also consider the Buick 350. The performance gains is certainly nice, but the issue will probably be decided mostly on how comfortable I am with the status of the 1965 engine being so "low" on the interest level of suppliers. Right now parts are available, but there is only so much you can do for an engine that was produced only a few years. If the goal is to keep the car as a practical vehicle, there is a lot to be said for having an engine in the car that was in production for decades.
So, it's time for me to go back and think! Certainly, part of that thinking will involve seeing if I can find an engine rebuilder who I trust to do the job correctly and will do the work for something less than an arm and a leg!
Thanks to all for all the great help and Happy New Year!! :finish:
Cheers, Edouard
P.S. Just an unfortunate "gotcha", but I just checked the EGGE machine company website and their rebuild kit for the 300 cid V8 is described as for an 11:1 compression ratio http://www.egge.com/kits?make=BUICK&year=1965. I don't know if that's a typo on the website or an error in assuming the 64 and 65 engine used the same compression ratio. The 66 340 engine kit has the correct 10.25:1 ratio.
Team Buick data much better than faulty memory!
Thanks "Dr. FrankenBuick" ! :shield:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr. Frankenbuick
Let me indeed second that suggestion! Surfing the web has the hazard of dredging as much bad information as good. When in doubt, go back to the Team Buick references rather than the last spot you "surfed".
It doesn't help when you "remember" that a car was rated 270hp, when the service manual stubbornly agrees with Team Buick - it was only 250!
Optimistic dementia? :bgrin:
Thanks again to all!
Cheers, Edouard