I have a rebuilt 52 head and was wondering if I can use it in my 53. The shop manual says they are not interchangeable. ?????
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I have a rebuilt 52 head and was wondering if I can use it in my 53. The shop manual says they are not interchangeable. ?????
That is in the shop manual?! I would think they are interchangeable. I had heard that the '53 was slightly improved for a gain of 5HP, but I cannot confirm that! The parts manual shows the standard trans. head interchanging from '50 to 53 for use with aluminum pistons. Don't know why.
Frank, what is the '52 head from? I can not imagine it not working if it is from a 263. Perhaps some small difference. Compare the two side by side. Can you , or some one with a '53 shop manual, show us the text that says they will not interchange?Quote:
Originally Posted by frank-k
Ben
I would say yes too , its interchangable... like all 263ers...
I've heard, the only differend is that they start in '53 with testing the new alu pistons for the next year starting nailhead.
Hi Ben,Quote:
Originally Posted by firstofeight
The manual says;
"For the 1953 production, slight changes in the shape of all piston heads and cylinder head combustion chambers have provided increased compression ratios without adversely affecting detonation characteristics. Modification of the combustion chambers permitted relocation of the spark plugs 5/16" nearer the center of the chambers, thereby shortening the effective flame travel."
"The 1953 engine is identical with the 1952 engine except for the non-interchangeability of pistons and cylinder head"
I am going to pull the head this weekend and I'll compare the two. Iknow the new head is from a 1952 263, but that is all I know.
If possible, perhaps you can take pictures of them side by side and post. Would be interesting.
Ben
You could probably do a quick casting numbers check on the 2 heads to see if they are the same casting number, this would reduce the doubt of interchangeability by at least half if they are the same.
Here are some picturesQuote:
Originally Posted by firstofeight
Maybe time for a rebuild???
frank, thanks for the pictures. The piston/block pictures look good. I can not make much of the head pics. Was hoping for a side-by-side comparison. Can you see the difference?
May I inquire the reason you wanted to install the new [rebuilt?] head? From what one can see of the block, the engine is pretty clean. Is there much of a ridge at the top of the cylinders? Perhaps mic the cylinders to determine wear.
Ben
The biggest difference I noticed on the heads was the spark plug location. I was trying to get the whole head in the picture; a close up may be better.
There are a couple of deep vertical scores near the top of the bore; maybe 1/2" long. If you look close at the pictures of the pistons, there are deep nicks in the edge of the pistons. I am thinking I have to replace pistons for sure. Perhaps pulling and doing a complete rebuild would be better??? Compression in order 1-8 was 40, 53, 70, 30, 60, 40, 70,70
Here are some pictures of the bore
Here are a few more photos. I think the head is going to work, but I.m thinking I have replace pistons at the least. I tried to get a better picture of one of the pistons. I'm looking for opinions. I think I should pull the motor and do a complete rebuild.
The spark plug location will be where the '53 head gains its 5hp over the '52 head. You may want to hang on to the '53 head, someone may want it.
If you are concerned, perhaps use '52 pistons if you are re boring.
Where are you located, frank?
Ben
I am in Maine Ben
Shucks, I was hoping you were close by. I would enjoy helping on a straight eight rebuild. Guess I will just have to do my own.Quote:
Originally Posted by frank-k
Ben
Got back out in the barn today after a long hiatus...working every weekend and got wrapped up in another project car. I decided I am going to pull the motor and do a complete rebuild/overhaul. Can anyone recommend a machine shop/re-builder in the northeast with straight 8 experience?
I finally got around to pulling the motor!
I had trouble attaching the picture last night.
Way to go, Frank.
Have you progressed much? Have you determined the heads will interchange? I am building a performance 263, and the head has a crack through #1 exhaust seat. It is a '51 engine, and I have found a '53 head. One of us will know soon if they interchange.
Ben
Hi Ben,
I haven't done much since pulling the engine...a few home improvement projects have taken priority. I hope to start tearing it down soon, but I'm still looking for a machine shop to do the machine work. Keep me posted on your progress, and how you make out with the head.
A suggestion: You likely won't find a machine shop that has done a Buick I-8 recently, if at all. Any shop that handles larger I-6's will have a boring bar that can do the job. Old guys in the shop are a good sign.Quote:
Originally Posted by frank-k
When I looked for a local machine shop, my problem was all of them wanted to clean the block with a dip that would ruin the cam bearings. I didn't want to change them, because the manual provides: "The camshaft bearings must be line reamed to size after being pressed into the crankcase. Since this operation requires special reaming equipment the original bearings should be retained unless severely damaged." Use an acid dip and the cam bearings will be "severely damaged." Well, no one had any of the "special reaming equipment, and I had good oil pressure going into the rebuild.
I talked one guy into cleaning the block with water and strong soap, kept my cam bearings, and the result worked out just fine. The machinist had never done a 263 (or any other I-8) in his life, but he had done a lot of Chevy and GMC I-6's, and lots of small to medium diesels.
Just saying.
Good luck with it.
'51 Special
Thanks for the reply, guys. I settled for a '51 head. The '53 I had located had been worked on, brought to spec, and priced accordingly. Too much to through away with the mods I am doing. The only difference I could see is the spark plugs protrude a little into the combustion chamber on the '53.
I am in Wichita Falls TX and have been fortunate enough to find two machine shops that can do the work. The block is done. Bored to 85 mm. About 125 over, I think. Pistons are here. Head is in shop, receiving oversize valves and a little clean up in the ports. Rotating assembly is in same shop awaiting balancing. Cam is, I hope, being ground this week.
Looking forward to the assembly. I am ONLY about a month behind and SLIGHTLY over budget.
Ben
Modern cam bearings are finished. No need to line bore them. Modern technology.
Doug
Where do you find those modern bearings for straight eights and nailheads? Every one that I have done required reaming to fit. Maybe you meant modern bearings in modern engines??Quote:
Originally Posted by Buick Guy
rebuilt my 263 last year. installed new cam bearings. they did have to be line bored. very tight. even after I did not like how much drag the cam had. I should have had machine shop take a little more off. figured hell, it'll break in. find any diesel shop to install/ line bore your cam bearings. Buick Guy is right though, you should not need to.
We have used several brands, but this is one. https://www.kanter.com/productdetail...Cat=32&Prc=351 Doug
I got cam bearings from EGGE. $50. mains from EGGE $127, piston rings from EGGE. rod bearings from Cars Inc. lube holes did not match up well, so I just used a burr bit to egg shape. timing chain, gears and complete gasket kit from Cars Inc. use BEST gasket co. for gaskets and head gasket. go with the .015" I usually like to use BOB's, but Cars was cheaper.
We finally got around to tearing down the engine. We are having trouble removing one of the pistons. The rod will not fit through the bore.
Odd. Can you explain what the problem is more specifically?Quote:
Originally Posted by frank-k
Note, if that piston is not stuck, and you have used a ridge reamer, leave the problem piston for last, leave the crank in, and turn the crank to top dead center. Unbolt the rod cap, back the crank out of the way, and tap the piston out using a piece of hardwood to drive with the rod. The rod will fit through the bore.
We have all the other pistons removed. I took a picture of the rod, but it is hard to see. The rod does not fit through the bore. I am sending the block to the machine shop with the crank in. He wanted one piston, so I figured he could drop the piston out from below when he took out the crank shaft.Quote:
Originally Posted by '51 Special
No,different head on piston
Frank, Welcome back. Two years!
I finished mine, cracked a cylinder, tore the engine down, sleeved the cyl, reassembled and have driven a couple thousand. Where ya been?:D. Just yanking your chain.
I cannot tell from the picture, but bet the rod cap bolts have become turned . That would indeed cause it to be bigger than the bore. I just checked one in the garage.
Good luck
Ben
Sometime life gets busy :)
The block is at the machine shop. I decided to have them assemble the bottom end. The owner is a friend, so it may be there a while. You know how that goes.
His shop is extremely well equipped, and there is a lot of gray hair that is familiar with straight eights.
I am going to attempt a re-wiring of the car, and clean up the engine bay (finish some front suspension work) while the engine is out.
The wish list is bigger than the wallet :)
Obviously they removed the rod. Can you tell us what was wrong?
Ben