Trick to installing ignition switch?

Just replaced the lock cylinder our 95 Park ave and added a removable passkey bypass with old car parts. https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...121#post105121

It looks like it went well and it all works. However, in the process of narrowing down the problem I lowered the column and unbolted and slightly detached ( not the wires) the high beam switch and ignition switch to see if the key rack moved freely.

It turned out to be a bad lock cylinder so I bolted the two parts back on, raised the column and started tearing into the steering wheel.

But now I'm getting a no crank situation and there is also no click coming from the starter so it seems like it must be the ignition switch. Used the following page to check.
https://itstillruns.com/test-ignitio...h-5892178.html


Can anyone tell me if there's some trick to installing these switches on the key rack arm? Or maybe it's obvious to somebody how I messed this up? Thanks.

The only things not hooked up are the airbags and one other thing I just noticed. It's this strange elastic cord coming out of the instrument panel with a clip on the end. It clips onto the plastic housing of the steering column.

Could that little thing prevent cranking? What is it anyway?

I just dropped the column a little way again to check the ignition switch. I haven't removed it again yet but it seems to have a full range of movement. The lock cylinder travels all the way from lock to start easily suggesting it's seated on the key rack okay.

Are these things fragile or something? Did just inspecting it break it somehow?

Attachment 7188figured out what this elastic cord does. It moves the orange shifter notifier thing that shows what gear we're in

Attachment 7189hard to get a good pic of the underside of the ignition switch. But there appears to be only one hole for the key rack arm to go into.
I bolted it on tight, snugged up towards the steering wheel. Based on the scoring from where it was previously installed, it's in the exact same position again.
Attachment 7190Attachment 7191

I was going to start it, see if it worked. But I had the battery disconnected so now I have to wait until the security light goes out in like 10 min.

Battery had gone dead being attached for a night and day. I disconnected the horn awhile back because the stupid alarm kept going off randomly. I'm guessing that cruddy alarm is draining the battery.

This car is just headache after headache and most of the problems seem to stem from this ridiculously bad security from the 90s. Can anyone point me to a good thread on disabling this darn thing?


Got the battery charged again and still no crank, no click. :sad: Security light goes off though.

Attachment 7211The only other thing I messed with is this connector. I unbolted the red bolt in the center but it never came out and just spins forever. I tried to bolt it back on but it seems to spin forever that direction too without grabbing anything, even when applying pressure while turning.

I pried a little around the edges but nothing broke. The rest of the electrical in the car is working if that helps narrow it down.


Also the only fuse that's still removed is the airbag fuse. But that's shouldn't prevent starting.

So I had the battery tested and I was surprised to hear that it passed.

But, when it's connected to the car it dies in like 4-6 hours.

I guess I need to pull out my multimeter and start looking for the problem that way.

Following this guide, http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/3....es-not-crank-2

I'm 99% certain it's not the starter. It worked fine before I took everything apart.

Can anyone tell me how to test the ignition switch signal with just a multimeter? Don't have a power probe.

I just found this, https://repairpal.com/gm-passlock-security-light-issues

Apparently, after a job on the lock cylinder, the passkey relearn procedure must be done. Really, nobody here knew that?:clonk: I've been accidentally doing the 10 min procedure, sort of. But today I'll try the 30 min one.

Sheeeeeeesh, even that didn't work. It turned the security light off. But, still no crank, no click.

Google just isn't as useful as it used to be since the corporate overlords turned the internet to little more than a mall.

Isn't there some simple way to test an ignition switch with a basic multimeter?

A good item to start on is the battery drain problem.

The whole electrical system should pull 50 ma or less of current with everything off. A 7-minute wait is necessary before testing so that timer circuits can time out and quit pulling current.

Is your meter digital or pointer type?

What is the highest DC current range on it?

What is the lowest DC voltage range on it?

Dream tool to have here is a clamp on DC ammeter.

Does the car have any aftermarket electrical equipment such as stereo, amp, lights etc?

We don't want to try measuring the current directly if it is more than the range of your meter. It may be pulling several amps at rest if it runs the battery down in a few hours.

One easy thing to eliminate is dirty battery connections. Make sure there are no signs of corrosion on battery terminals or cable connectors. Clean them anyway with a wire brush or similar tool.

Attachment 7220It's just your average digital multimeter. I don't know as much about it as I'd like to. I just barely understand electricity. It's one of the most confusing topics I've ever studied. And I read programmimg textbooks for fun.

If it needs a long complicated process of elimination to find the short then I'll either scrap this car or it'll just melt into the pavement waiting for me to spend a boatload of money on it.


But I think i know what's draining it. I posted about it here since it seems like a separate issue. https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...95-Park-Avenue

I'm 90% sure that's got to be the drain.

As it is, would a drain prevent cranking? The battery is charged now, and I'm keeping it charged by disconnecting it when I'm not messing with the car. Still can't get it to crank. Solenoid still doesn't click.

But the starter worked fine before I took apart the interior. So the problem should be with something on the interior. No?

Will this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnxSEqDHhrs

Do you have another key to try. I have heard stories about the keys.

See attached instructions on how to check mounting position of the ignition switch and dimmer switch using a 3/32" drill bit to lock it in position.

The passkey module can block vehicle operation two ways:

1. When correct key resistance is detected, passkey module completes the circuit to the starter enable relay coil. This enables the ignition switch to energize the starter solenoid during starting. The circuit is interrupted when the passkey module detects a problem with the key resistance.

Power for the starter enable relay coil comes from fuse 1A. This fuse also supplies the SDM airbag module. If this fuse is pulled, car will not start. Removal of Fuse 1C instead will disable the airbags.

2. The passkey module generates a PWM square-wave signal when it detects correct resistance on the key. This signal is then fed into the power train control module to enable the fuel injectors. If this signal is absent at the PCM, no fuel is supplied. Since this feature would be very difficult to disconnect or bypass, the passkey system has to be kept in operation.

The passkey system will activate the security warning light if it is blocking vehicle operation.

The universal theft deterrent system (door/trunk/horn alarm system) can also activate the security light. Those alarms do not affect vehicle starting.

10-min and 30-min relearn procedures are not applicable to the '95 Park Avenue.

The red bolt on C202 may have stripped threads. Or the insert in the connector body may be stripped out. Also if a regular nut was used on the back side, it might have fallen out. There's probably several little latching fingers that have to be held open to get the connector to come apart. A 48-pin connector that hasn't been apart in 20+ years will give some resistance even when everything is free. Recommendation is to leave it alone unless there is specific reason to take it apart.

No-start condition and battery drain look to be separate issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TODD

See attached instructions on how to check mounting position of the ignition switch and dimmer switch using a 3/32" drill bit to lock it in position.

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Thanks! I definitely did not set the switch in a special position before installing it. That could be it.
Unfortunately, it also says installing it in the wrong position can damage the switch.:angry:

And I've apparently done that twice now. So to answer my own question, yes these switches are incredibly delicate. Even the local mechanic said they're not.

Maybe I can reseat it one last time and get lucky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TODD

The passkey module can block vehicle operation two ways:

1. When correct key resistance is detected, passkey module completes the circuit to the starter enable relay coil. This enables the ignition switch to energize the starter solenoid during starting. The circuit is interrupted when the passkey module detects a problem with the key resistance.

Power for the starter enable relay coil comes from fuse 1A. This fuse also supplies the SDM airbag module. If this fuse is pulled, car will not start. Removal of Fuse 1C instead will disable the airbags.

2. The passkey module generates a PWM square-wave signal when it detects correct resistance on the key. This signal is then fed into the power train control module to enable the fuel injectors. If this signal is absent at the PCM, no fuel is supplied. Since this feature would be very difficult to disconnect or bypass, the passkey system has to be kept in operation.

The passkey system will activate the security warning light if it is blocking vehicle operation.

The universal theft deterrent system (door/trunk/horn alarm system) can also activate the security light. Those alarms do not affect vehicle starting.

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Thanks. I was aware of that stuff. There's a bunch of info online about bypassing passkey.

The bypass seems to work since the security light is not coming on when I try to start it.

When it comes on is after every time I reattach the battery. But after doing the 10 min relearn procedure it goes away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TODD

10-min and 30-min relearn procedures are not applicable to the '95 Park Avenue.

The red bolt on C202 may have stripped threads. Or the insert in the connector body may be stripped out. Also if a regular nut was used on the back side, it might have fallen out. There's probably several little latching fingers that have to be held open to get the connector to come apart. A 48-pin connector that hasn't been apart in 20+ years will give some resistance even when everything is free. Recommendation is to leave it alone unless there is specific reason to take it apart.

No-start condition and battery drain look to be separate issues.

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What? Relearn procedure not applicable? Then how is it seemingly working? And if it's not applicable then what is? What makes it freak out after disconnecting the battery?

I'd rather not have to deal with that connector. If the red bolt being stripped of whatever isn't a huge problem I'd like to leave that alone too.d

Glad you share my opinion about them being separate issues. I made another thread for the battery drain issue but no replies yet.https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...95-Park-Avenue Thanks again for your help, Todd.

Oh, and yes I have fuse 1a installed and it's a good fuse. 1c is still removed but shouldn't prevent starting as far as we know yeah?

I reinstalled the ignition switch and high beam button again using the info from the service manual. I took it off in the lock cylinder in the lock position and it appeared to already have been installed correctly. I

I followed the instructions anyway and moved it all the way to the right using a small screwdriver, then one step back. It looked to be in the same position i started in.

However when I got it all back together and turned the ignition, it did seem to have more travel towards the start direction. Got me a little excited.

But then I discovered that the battery had been drained again, this time with the negative cable detached!

What can drain a battery with only the positive side hooked up? Wow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TODD

10-min and 30-min relearn procedures are not applicable to the '95 Park Avenue.

...

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Besides the other page i shared about it here,
https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...263#post105263

I just found this (PDF alert) that states the procedure for passlock 2, which we definitely have, is nearly the same, but 11 min each time.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iqZVydNhxKr4Bw

Okay, progress. After the slightly different passkey reset outlined here https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...269#post105269 the security light is finally behaving.

The security light goes off after a couple seconds but when turning to start there's still no cranking going on. It's odd, but I think hear a slight clicking now when I try to start it.

Looks like even with the trickle charger hooked up during all that resetting, it still drained it quite a bit. Maybe after t it charges for awhile it'll finally start. This car is such a headache!


Okay so to recap,
1. The ignition switch is installed correctly
2. The security light is going off

I don't have long enough alligator clips to run the voltage drop tests. But the battery was tested and it's good, the starter and everything worked fine before I messed with the interior, and the battery cables are good and the terminals are clean.

How do I test it the ignition switch is sending its signal? I can use my multimeter as an ammeter but it doesn't clip on.

Holy **** this piece of junk is infuriating. After letting it charge for a few hours I went to start it and the f'ing security light is back on. It started blinking when I opened the gawddamn door.

This is just insane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 95ParkAve

Okay, progress. After the slightly different passkey reset outlined here https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...269#post105269 the security light is finally behaving.

The security light goes off after a couple seconds but when turning to start there's still no cranking going on. It's odd, but I think hear a slight clicking now when I try to start it.

Looks like even with the trickle charger hooked up during all that resetting, it still drained it quite a bit. Maybe after t it charges for awhile it'll finally start. This car is such a headache!


Okay so to recap,
1. The ignition switch is installed correctly
2. The security light is going off

I don't have long enough alligator clips to run the voltage drop tests. But the battery was tested and it's good, the starter and everything worked fine before I messed with the interior, and the battery cables are good and the terminals are clean.

How do I test it the ignition switch is sending its signal? I can use my multimeter as an ammeter but it doesn't clip on.

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The clicking sound is a good sign. Hopefully it is the starter enable relay coming on. That relay is located by itself high on the bracket where the 48-pin connector with red bolt is located.

Another item that that could be blocking a start is the transaxle position (Park-Neutral) switch. While holding the ignition switch in start, move the gearshift back and forth without trying to put it in gear. Also try the same thing while trying to start it in Neutral. Beware in case it tries to start in gear. Something could have gotten out of adjustment with all the steering column work.

Does the battery charger show how much current it is putting out?
Does it shut off automatically when it thinks battery is fully charged?
How much current is charger rated for?
Does any battery cell feel warmer than the others while charging?
Does battery make bubbling noise while charging?
Can you substitute another known good battery for testing?
Use your voltmeter to measure voltage on battery terminals at end of charge cycle while charger is still running. Also measure battery voltage just after charging with nothing connected to it. Then measure again after it sits for say 4-6 hours. Then measure with it in the car, cables attached, with nothing turned on. Measure again with high beams turned on.

Your meter can measure current up to 10 amps. We will need to put some sort of current limiting device in the + line and measure first to make sure current level is not over 10 A.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 95ParkAve

Besides the other page i shared about it here,
https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...263#post105263

I just found this (PDF alert) that states the procedure for passlock 2, which we definitely have, is nearly the same, but 11 min each time.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iqZVydNhxKr4Bw

---

Passlock 2 and PASS-Key II are not the same thing.

This is the problem with using 3rd or 4th hand information where someone has tried to combine data covering several generations of systems. The procedures along with names of the systems and components get all mixed up leaving the readers confused. Much of this info goes directly against the first hand GM info in the shop manual for the car.

Anyway the odds of finding the solution by following anecdotes from others is low; the electrical system is far too complicated for that approach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 95ParkAve

I reinstalled the ignition switch and high beam button again using the info from the service manual. I took it off in the lock cylinder in the lock position and it appeared to already have been installed correctly. I

I followed the instructions anyway and moved it all the way to the right using a small screwdriver, then one step back. It looked to be in the same position i started in.

However when I got it all back together and turned the ignition, it did seem to have more travel towards the start direction. Got me a little excited.

But then I discovered that the battery had been drained again, this time with the negative cable detached!

What can drain a battery with only the positive side hooked up? Wow

---

Battery cannot supply current to anything if only one lead is hooked up. Battery can run itself down with one bad cell, so that the other five good cells cannot produce any current.

Realizing that it passed a test, how was the test done? Were there any readings recorded on a test sheet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 95ParkAve

Holy **** this piece of junk is infuriating. After letting it charge for a few hours I went to start it and the f'ing security light is back on. It started blinking when I opened the gawddamn door.

This is just insane.

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One thing that may help until all the bugs are worked out:

Remove the bypass key with the resistor pellet from the old lock unless attempting to start the car. Once the system examines the resistor and okays the value, it continues to monitor the resistance looking for problems. There is no telling what the PASS-Key II module does during all the periods of weak battery voltage, battery removal, and re-installation etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TODD

Does the battery charger show how much current it is putting out?
Does it shut off automatically when it thinks battery is fully charged?
How much current is charger rated for?
Does any battery cell feel warmer than the others while charging?
Does battery make bubbling noise while charging?
Can you substitute another known good battery for testing?
Use your voltmeter to measure voltage on battery terminals at end of charge cycle while charger is still running. Also measure battery voltage just after charging with nothing connected to it. Then measure again after it sits for say 4-6 hours. Then measure with it in the car, cables attached, with nothing turned on. Measure again with high beams turned on.

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Thanks for all the ideas. I just took the battery back to the mechanics who put a new battery in this car in Feb of this year. They just said they tested it and it holds a charge so they wouldnt replace it. I doubt they used any actual testing equipment on it.

Here's the charger I inherited with this car. It's pretty old by the looks of it. But it works. Just a simple trickle charger. I usually use the 6amp, 12v setting. I use 2amps overnight. ( Pic uploading keeps failing today, even using desktop version on my phone.It worked before dang it.)

The charger shows how many amps are being drawn, I think.
No it doesn't shut off. I have to remember to turn it off.
Current.. 6amp 12v?
No none of the cells feel hot while charging. Been checked and full of water too.
No bubbling sound while charging.
I could maybe pull the battery out of the jeep. But the way this car seems to be draining the battery I don't really want to risk another battery if I don't absolutely have to.

I'll perform the checks you suggest over the next few days while I'm waiting for the bypass module to arrive. Thanks

12.54v when disconnected
12.54v the next day
13.68v while charging
13.65v when disconnected after leaving charget on for a couple hours too long.
13.15v after sitting disconnected approx 36hrs
12.96v connected, car off
12.06v high beams on plus interior lights
12.55v attached, car off
12.75v detached

Battery never felt warm or bubbled, even overcharging it.

Found this. http://m.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain
It made it seem less difficult so I tried it.

Battery was at 13.06v when I began, 12.85 after tests and disconnecting
Attachment 726029ma draw so I pulled and inspected each fuse. 9D looks blown but has no effect on the meter. Fuse 9C, when removed, dropped the drain to 23ma. Nothing else effected the readout.

9C	Chime. Radio, Cluster

9D	Rear Cigar Lighters

Well that explains why nobody missed 9D. I wonder how to proceed from here. I kind of narrowed it down, I think. But, I only narrowed it down to a huge mess of wiring.

Also, maybe the radio's digital clock just pulls 6ma? It always stays on.

It seemed best to make a new thread for the power drain thing. https://www.teambuick.com/forums/sho...331#post105331

I'd consider this question about the ignition switch totally answered after TODD attached those schematics showing how it's installed. Thanks again.:bgrin: