Alternator on a 1960 Buick-- any suggestions on this issue?

When I bought my Electra 22 years ago, it already had been changed over to an alternator (Delco Remy with the built-in regulator) and it has always worked fine.. except: When you put turn the key ON and all the indicators are supposed to light up (to let you know they work), no lights come on until I start the car, at which point the COLD light and the GEN light now come on and the gas gauge gauge does not function.. After the car warms up, the COLD light goes off and the GEN light dims (but stays on) and the gas gauge starts to work.. and this is the way it's been for the longest time-- So as long as the GEN light is on, I know it's charging okay, and when it starts to fail, I know it's time to check or change out the alternator.. So now it's starting to work intermittently so I removed it and the local auto parts store tried to match it up but when I hooked up the new one, the COLD light and GEN light came on before I even touched the ignition, and the starter wouldn't even click! so I took it back and got my old one, slapped it back on and the car fired up OK, but I know that with the alternator working intermittently it's time to do a rebuild (or get a refurbished correct one).. any thoughts or anyone experienced the same stuff?

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Originally Posted by jazzfi

I took it back and got my old one, slapped it back on and the car fired up OK, but I know that with the alternator working intermittently it's time to do a rebuild (or get a refurbished correct one).. any thoughts or anyone experienced the same stuff?

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I think you have a third choice: wire the alternator correctly. Just because it was on the car when you got it, that doesn't mean whoever installed it knew what he was doing, and from your description of the old alternator's behavior (for the last 22 years), he definitely didn't.

So how electrically literate are you?

Ray

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Originally Posted by raycow

I think you have a third choice: wire the alternator correctly. Just because it was on the car when you got it, that doesn't mean whoever installed it knew what he was doing, and from your description of the old alternator's behavior (for the last 22 years), he definitely didn't.

So how electrically literate are you?

Ray

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hmmm, not very.. i hooked it up the same way i took it off-- plugged it in, and there's a red and yellow wire going to the battery screw, and the car fires right up... are you suggesting to re-wire the alternator internally?

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Originally Posted by jazzfi

are you suggesting to re-wire the alternator internally?

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No, I'm assuming that you have a normal internally regulated alternator and that it is not defective. To verify, it should have a plug-in connector with terminals marked 1 and 2. What you need to change is the way the alternator is connected to the car wiring. From your description of the way the warning lights behaved, the PO clearly had it wrong. The GEN and COLD lights should light when the ignition switch is turned to RUN. The GEN light should go out when the engine starts. The gas gauge should also move when the switch is turned to RUN. What does your OIL light or gauge do (whichever one you have)?

The problem fixing it is this: If the car were completely stock, with its original generator, I could tell you how to wire the alternator. The PO obviously did it wrong, but I can't see what he did, so I don't know what to tell you to undo in order for you to wire it correctly.

We can try the easiest way first. Do you live anywhere close to me? I'm in San Francisco.

Ray

Thanks Ray, you're very kind, and obviously have a great understanding of the wiring issues, alas I live in Kansas City.. Do you also own a '60?
The weird thing is, when I first bought the car, it worked the way it was supposed to: all the lights came on when the key was turned to ON, and then they went off (except the COLD) when the car started... then at some time I guess during the first year, it started doing that wacky thing and it's been that way ever since.. As long as the GEN light is on, I know I'm good and I know how much gas I have... When it doesn't come on, I know it's time to have it replaced... I've replaced the alternator (or had it rebuilt) only once in 22 years so I guess it's about time..

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Originally Posted by jazzfi

when I first bought the car, it worked the way it was supposed to: all the lights came on when the key was turned to ON, and then they went off (except the COLD) when the car started... then at some time I guess during the first year, it started doing that wacky thing and it's been that way ever since.. As long as the GEN light is on, I know I'm good and I know how much gas I have... When it doesn't come on, I know it's time to have it replaced... I've replaced the alternator (or had it rebuilt) only once in 22 years so I guess it's about time..

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Ok, this changes things quite a bit. If your warning lights all worked normally when you first got the car, then the alternator was probably wired correctly. The problem now is to find out what subsequently went wrong once the car was in your care. Do you remember having any kind of work done on the car at about that time? It could even be something totally unrelated to the alternator.

I found a wiring diagram for your car in Team Buick's quite extensive reference section. You can see the diagram here:
http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l...files/10-j.pdf

The diagram shows that your car was originally equipped with the "press gas pedal to start" feature. Do you still have that feature and does it appear to work normally? I'm asking because the stock starting circuit was originally connected to the generator wiring. This was normal on all the gas pedal start Buicks, but it can create some problems when you convert to an alternator if the conversion isn't done properly. Please look at the diagram and compare it with the wiring on your car, specifically the charging circuit and the starting circuit. I am hoping you can tell me how the wiring has been changed so we can troubleshoot this problem.

My present Buick is a 52, which I converted to an alternator quite a long time ago. The alternator has been trouble-free ever since. I also had to eliminate the gas pedal start because I wanted to run a non-Buick carb which did not have the starting switch. Unfortunately, I have never owned a 60 Buick, so I am not as knowledgeable about your car as I would like to be. One difference I can see which really makes a difference is that your car has warning lights instead of gauges and the GEN light is connected to the starting circuit. No other car that I am aware of has this particular hookup.

Ray

Thanks a lot Ray.. yeah, it's still and has always been gas-pedal starter switch, with no problems.. eventually i will probably wind up taking her to an auto-electric shop and let them find it.. at the time it started acting screwy no work was being done to the car, so I'm figuring there may be moisture causeing it to act this way..