Timing issues 430 BB

Ryan474

Ryan474

Active Member
Hey guys I have a 430 punched .30 over with a TA performance cam lobe separation of 110 degree.
Intake duration 274 and exhaust 290.
I have the stock distributor with a pertronix 1 installed. And a pertronix hi performance coil. I seem to be having a timing issue.. the car has Holley sniper quadjet installed. At idle with around 4 degrees advance it idles and starts awesome. But anytime i get down the road and put any load on the car it falls on its face and sometimes back fires. I then advanced the timing to about 10 degrees and drove again and almost same thing happens.

My distributor is plumbed into the ported port on the throttle body fuel injection. I had a guy last night at car show tell me to plumb distributor into manifold port? Should I try this or does someone have any other suggestions?

Thanks

Ryan


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Initial timing is completely irrelevant. Mechanical and vacuum advance add timing off idle. You need to check timing a higher RPM, and find out where it maxes out. Also, I sincerely doubt whether your distributor is the one that the 430 left the factory with. The engine is 50 + years old, so chances are it's been replaced in the past. Distributors look the same on the outside, but they can differ a lot as far as mechanical advance is concerned. I wrote this thread on V8buick a very long time ago because of the confusion over ignition timing,

www.v8buick.com

Power Timing your Buick V8

I thought I would try and compose this post to answer timing questions I see all the time on this BB. I see alot of questions about what initial...
www.v8buick.com www.v8buick.com
 
My 67 430 was .020 over with a TA 284 88H cam, TA front cover, double roller, stock distributor with a pertronix unit and matching coil, jetted quadrajet. Still don't know why but once all the work was done it wouldn't advance with the carb vacuum port anymore. Had to tap the manifold vacuum to get it to work right. Neither my engine builder nor anyone else I asked had an answer for this. If I remember correctly my initial timing was around 10° with a wot advance of 34°. You will benefit from an adjustable vacuum advance on that distributor over the stock unit which is probably not working properly anymore.
 
So today I set the initial timing at 4 degrees advance to get total timing of 30. Car ran terrible and back fired and barely made it back. Adjusted initial timing to 8 degree advance and total timing to 34 degrees and the car ram worse.. more back firing.
When i pulled plugs the front two plugs on both sides of engine were pretty fouled up while back four plugs were good..

Any ideas?

Ryan


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Ryan474 said:
So today I set the initial timing at 4 degrees advance to get total timing of 30. Car ran terrible and back fired and barely made it back. Adjusted initial timing to 8 degree advance and total timing to 34 degrees and the car ram worse.. more back firing.
When i pulled plugs the front two plugs on both sides of engine were pretty fouled up while back four plugs were good..

Any ideas?

Ryan


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Click to expand...

Going to throw out some generalizations here Ryan but with a silly question first. Are you sure your spark wires are in their correct locations?
Are they in good condition? Are your cap and Rotor in good condition, cap in its proper mounting location? As silly as it sounds some people can manage to get a square peg into a round hole.

Have you checked the resistance and voltage on the electrical feed wire going to the coil? Sometimes they will have a reduction in voltage designed to keep from burning points and that reduction will make you pull your hair out trying to figure out the problem. Did you use the rubber grommet over the pertronix wires going into the distributor? This is a step a lot of guys skip because it's a pain but if your wire chaffes and grounds you'll have all kinds of problems as well.

Edit: spelling
 
Yes I have checked all spark plug wires And they are in hood shape and brand new. They are in correct position on rotor which is brand new as well. As of the positive wire going to the coil when I disconnected the wire from the coil and turn the key to accessory it tests out at 12v. But weird thing is when I have the power positive hooked up to the coil and the positive wire from distributor and i test volts on positive side of coil it gives me a 6 v reading…

Ryan


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It sounds like you have multiple problems. There should be no voltage to the coil in the accessory position that is key back towards driver. There should only be voltage to the coil in 2 key positions that is run and start. That 6 volt reading is troublesome. That's not really enough voltage for the pertronix unit. I believe the instructions state 8 volts nominal voltage. You seem to be chasing a timing problem when what you have is a voltage issue. I strongly recommend pulling out the pertronix unit and throwing in the points and condenser to get the engine running then chase down the voltage issue once you know it's running fine. There is a resistance wire that feeds the coil positive to prevent burning out the points. It seems that yours is stronger that most. Trace it up the engine usually on the passenger side. I'll bet you'll find a replacement wire was spliced in somewhere. Loop out the wire beyond the splice with the same gauge standard wire, crimp on a loop connector for the coil and the problem will be solved. You can leave the resistance wire in place in case you decide to go back to points. Honestly I've only had 1 car a 1974 firebird that had that strong a resistance wire over the years.
 
Ok thanks! Ill trace out the wire And see if the resistance wire is still present. Ill get back to you!

Thanks

Ryan


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Ok so i ram a temporary wire directly to 12volts to the positive side of the coil and of course my positive wire on distributor. It still ran like crap.. i adjusted timing from 4 degrees advanced to up to 8 and then back to 2 degrees ad advanced. Still all ran bad. My guess is maybe the pertronix went bad having low voltage of 6 going to it for a period of time and frying it? Any other thoughts? Anyone know how i could test the pertronix before i bit the bullet to buy a new one?

Ryan


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Ryan,
Reread post #7 and observe my Strong recommendation BEFORE you spend any more money. Get it running correctly First then accessorize.
Bill
 
Well i don’t have the points and condenser anymore. I could put some back in but i notes have a flame thrower 1 coil installed. Not sure if i could use that with points?


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Ryan474 said:
Well i don’t have the points and condenser anymore. I could put some back in but i notes have a flame thrower 1 coil installed. Not sure if i could use that with points?


The coil is not an issue and will work with the points to get the engine running.

Just a little tip here, Pertronix units fail. Not regularly but they do and one left me stranded many years back. Ever since then I've always kept a points replacement kit in the car. If the unit fails it will take about 20 minutes to swap it out by cutting the wires at the unit and making the swap. In the kit I had points, condenser (don't like unisets), gap gauge the mounting screws and the wire to the coil. That will be enough to get you home without the hassle of a tow. Of course you should always have a basic set of tools every time you venture out in a 50+ year old car. I still have a kit somewhere in the garage that I'll put in the next classic ride I get.
My point is go out and buy all this stuff, get the car running with it then bag it up when you replace it and keep it in the glove compartment.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for the feedback! Ill get back with ya. Hope this solves issue!


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Ok guys I got a new pertronix ignitor 2 that is a bit more reliable sense it has the magnetic sleeve and senses reverse polarity. Also put a new coil per recommendations from pertronix and put the flame thrower two with 0.6 ohms resistance. Double checked my timing and set at 8 degrees advance. Car fires right up and was able to take to show yesterday!

I will say shout out for all the help guys! Larry at pertronix as well because he sent me a new ignitor for free! Top notch guys over there!

I also did run a new power 14 gauge wire from fuse panel directly to positive side of coil so i have 12v at all times.

Car runs awesome!
fa17d6baf8b850ec4c6989ebb76cedd7.jpg



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Ported vs. Manifold Vacuum

Decoding Chevrolet VIN, trim tags, cowl tags, engine, engine block casting numbers, cylinder head casting numbers, intake manifold casting numbers, transmission, interior codes, and paint codes.
chevellestuff.net chevellestuff.net

This is a very good read to back up Larry70gs post. This gives me a way better understanding on total timing and why manifold vacuum can help a guy out! Looking forward to trying this in my car


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