Oldest known Buick

[bittmann]

The missuz and I took a short vacation trip to visit Harold Warp's Pioneer Village Museum in Minden, NE.

While there, I was able to spend some time poring over what was marked as the oldest known Buick. A 1905 Buick Model C, serial # 2873. Twin opposed cylinder, water cooled, chain final drive, single rear band brake on the differential. Overhead valves, of course. After all, this IS a Buick.

There were carriages in the museum manufactured later than that car!

 

[bob k. mando]

noice. i see that's near Kearney.
.
reposted from AACA
July 28, 2004
Greg,

Thanks for the compliment on the car.

For those who are not familiar with the 1904 project and to be fair to the car, there are more original 1904 and parts unique to only 1904 and 1905 on this car verses fabricated parts. Though the 1904 and 1905 look virtually identical, that are many differences between them and many 1905 parts are not the same as 1904.

There are no parts on the car that were not originally designed for the car. We rejected many early parts because of those slight differences between the 1904 and 1905 cars. So many parts were rejected, another late 1905 or early 1906 vehicle can nearly be built.

The fabricated components include the dash mounted drip oiler, which was reverse engineered based on photographs, radiator, which the pieces were cast from originals, and can be found on the Nethercutt car, and 3 of the Eastwood Family 1905 cars, the 5th oldest 1905, as well as the 2nd oldest Buick. The major difference in the Radiator is that the 04 is about 1 inch longer. (more fins on the tubes)

The oil chamber was made by the original manufacturer Essex Brass at the time the Sloan vehicle was worked on in 1976.

The steering column case was also fabricated from the original 1905 case, but without the adjustable features. Internal gearing was found, however, due to wear, new replacement was used.

However, the remaining mechanicals are from original 1904 parts (axles,diff carrier, spindles, springs, transmission, flywheel) New differential/brake drums were made because internal gearing on original drums were way to worn.

Original fenders were located, and hood remade by Rootlieb.

Like any restoration there are many warn parts that get made because they can not be used again for safety reasons, as well as some pieces replaced for crispness sake such as nuts, bolts, rivets, linkage, tubing etc.....

The body is a rebuild which was done by probably the best wood body builder on the west cost, Vic Groah, who has the honor of working on the oldest Ford, Cadillac and Buick. Every joint, every technique that was used in the day was painstakingly done in this body. Thanks to having the second oldest 1905 buick, and access to the 5th oldest buick original body torn-down to be able to see original construction.

In reference to the vehicle in Minden, it is actually parts from several 1905 Buicks. It happens to have the oldest flywheel number, which has in turn designated it as the oldest Buick. As like the 1904 it is not all from the same original vehicle.

If anyone has the time to go out and see the Minden car, it is part of a wonderful unrestored collection of cars. The curator is very friendly and even suggested a 'Oldest Buicks' get-togther. He And I had a wonderful time looking and discussing details each others cars.

The second oldest 1905 buick happens to be parked next to the 1904 and will hopefully be displayed at the Buick Show when it comes to Los Angeles in 2007 if we are lucky enough. This 1905 is an all original car, and has been worked on by the most knowledgeable early Buick people, the late Doug and Warwick Eastwood, and Dougs son Pete. Without Warwicks and Petes support and knowledge, the completion of the 1904 and 1905 may never have happened or would have been significantly longer.

Of the 14 1905s remaining only a few are actually in their original factory build. At least 3 have parts from each others cars. Most have parts from found parts, as we would use when original are too far gone to restore. One even has all new metal work even though the originals were worth saving. Some have body work as extensive equal to a complete rebuild.

All the Early Buicks are all respectable in what ever state they are in and no matter how they were assembled. When one restores a car this early, one is happy to find any remaining parts when so few were made and few survived as original and many kept running by any means possible.

Every early Buick owner, not just 1905 owners, but all brass Buick car owners have wonderful pieces of history and should be encouraged to show them and educate the public. Very few ever make it to the shows I attend.

For an overview of the earliest Buicks check out this article by Larry Gustin.

http://1929buick.com/articles/index.html?id=00003

For more pictures of all of the remaining 1905s, the 1904, and for history on the Marr Car, designed by Walter Marr, Buicks Lead Engineer, and LOTS LOTS more,

check out:

http://www.1904buick.com/gallery/

Kevin

 

[bittmann]

I can attest, it is an amazing collection. A whole row of Buicks, Fords, Chryslers, Pontiacs, Chevys, there's Stanley Steamers, old Olds, many niche marks (they have dozens of makes represented but even so, out of the 1900+ automakers that were founded in the US, that still only scratches the surface). Plus, pre-automotive (wagons, carriages, sledges), farm equipment, tooling, household equipment and displays, aviation, snow machines, maritime motors and an entire yacht, and of course a section on the Warp plastic manufacturing that made this museum possible.

And at the end of the Nash and Hudson sections they had a pristine Gremlin (my first car), which definitely brought a smile to my face.

We spent 6+ hours there, moving right along. If it weren't for the heat and humidity we could've spent hours more.

The museum is geared to this "progression". You don't just have one example (say) of an outboard motor, you have a line starting from the very early examples up through recognizable multi-cylinder "modern" versions.

The missuz isn't as excited about old iron as I am, but she said the same thing - give it a few years and we'll come back. It's that impressive.