Anything new from the straight 8 hot rodders?

pistons yes, rods ?

Sure was Aaron, thanks for the post/alert. I just got my 52 manual, and I am understanding better why my father always spoke so enthusiasticaly about Buick. Straight Eight, and Dynaflow, can you say smooooooth power delivery? Makes me wish my 263 had a Dynaflow, but that would really blow the budget! While I see modern pistons as pretty much a necessity, and I haven't yet seen the inside of the engine, or handled the rods, are the rods really a weak link? How much power can a nailhead make and keep the pinch bolt rods? Like I said before, I've always been just a "bench racer", so these are honest questions.
 
I was lookin for this one too. Seen it somewhere and cudnt find it. Now thats the way to go, mebbe can adapt GM V8 injector system, and a couple of chrysler K, car turbos,and homemade manifolds. Great for a homebuilt job.This setup would work well with a dynaflow,it would let that turbo build up for gobs of torq. would need stronger pistons, also blown engines dont need a lotta cam, mebbe higher lift rocker arms,stock compression, and away U go.
 
buick rods aren,t neccessarily weak, but if you are trying for the ultimate power, and turning lots of rpm,s they could let go. I talked to an oldtime buick racer who said he over revved his 320' engine, (circle track 49 buick) 6200 rpms, didnt throw a rod, but pulled the center maincap! He had removed the pin bolts and welded the rods. [he,s certified welder]
 
omygod.......Look at that car........I........am.........almost.......speechless....."Would'ent you RATHER have a straight 8?!!" I need a poster of that baby, for the shop wall....for contemplaitive purposes......alleycat
 
yep i love them straight 8,s! I mean they are impressive, and they are also a reliable strong running engine, as are the 'little 8,s' too.
 
Great story about the '49 racer. To me it proves the rods are plenty strong! Modern rod bolts would be at least as strong as welding. As for cool stories, 25 years ago, I worked with a man (I'm sure he's past,R.I.P., Dick) who told of driving from chicago to LA in a model A. They threw a rod through the block, and drove 30 miles , with Dick standing on the running board , using a stick to hold the rod, (still moving with the crank) clear of the block!!!
 
rods

In the last few weeks I got back the info on having the str8 rods annalized, so here is the diffinative word; Nickle-vanadium-steel alloy. Exactly what the alloy # is, don't know. Its probably propritary. It was used in all engines up to about 51 or 2. The 248 rod will rockwell about 26, the 320 about 18-20 rockwell. Why the difference, it could be factory prep, but it also was a 52 rod. 50-1 263 is the same as 248. 53 263 rod rockwelled, 10. Not good. Total material change. By 52 V8's we're a done deal. Quality control was, well, not so quality. I think the rod material was the same, just not the level of prep as befor. 53 263 got rods made of the same material as the V8. Clearly, the V8 didn't get the same "good" stuff as the str8's.

How good are these rods? Every bit as good as Pontiac's superduty rods of the 60's. Every bit as good as anything that mortal man could get from either ford, chev, or mopar. At least into the 70's. They all rockwell very nearly the same. It will take a LOT to loose a rod.

Prep: Don't use the 53 rod. Remove the forging flash from the beam. Polish. Shot peen. Good bolts. I don't have a # for bolts, yet. Replace the top pinch bolt with grade 8's. You WON'T be able to kill these rods. alleycat
 
Well, that's a kick in the head! Did you get percentages? If I were still working in a tool room, I might try to re-heat treat. But like the man said, "if we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs.....if we had some eggs". Oh well, it's been fun just thinking and talking about this engine. If someone on the south central east coast of Florida needs one, it might be available, we'll have to give this some thought. Then again it might be fun to throw the blower on it and watch it "blow up real good".
 
Seems from what i,ve read and heard, that the old 320" racing Buicks had some pretty good top end speed, so that means they were putting out good horsepower on the top end. Somebody knows how to make em' go. I havnt actually seen the ports these engines had, or the combustion chambers. thats where the secrets are!
 
pistons, egge machine, & stuff

Buick str8's don't have very good pistons. This was probably obvious to Charles Chane about a week after he came to Buick. The only solution, at the time, was a total engine redesign. The only thing that came down to us as a result of that effort is the 263. If you line up a piston from each engine,248, 263, 320, it is totaly obvious that the 263 has a vastly more modern piston. It stayed up to date into the 70's. This gives the 263 a real advantage. All three still need major help for reliable, serious hi-perf efforts.

I started calling, emailing, everybody that not only had str8 pistons but could perhaps make them. Any info at all. Kantor, Maddog, Ross, JE, Badger, billet places, the works. Kantor was nearly usless. They get 'em from someplace. Won't tell me. Don't know anything about them, or won't say. "Just buy 'em, we know what were doing, trust us". Yup. Maddog is a clearing house. They tried to help. Perhaps Badger makes them for us. Emailed Badger. Zip. Nada. Ross; "you want what for a what!!" JE, Arais, same. JE did turn out to be a offshoot of Jahn's, a possiable! Basic jist, "if we have the tooling that will get us close enough the the bore size, it's possiable, but forget the top. Unless a flat top or dome will do". Billet places, "anything you want, any material, any top shape". Not cheap. The only drawback with forged or billet, they're going to be heavy, bullit-proof but real chunks. Hmmm

I'm in california. I ran across egge machine. I knew of them. They are in california. About 80 miles up the road. I went for a look-see. Well now! This place is WAY more than their catalog lets on! They have a nice storefront, and a lot of parts storage. But "back there" is a full-on machine shop, and foundry. They do a LOT of stuff in there! These guys are no joke. They make their own pistons. They probably supply other sources. They make str8 pistons. The alloy is A332 or F132, both nearly the same alloy. High silica, about 12%, Not hyperutectic but very good. All the old, bad features of the str8 pistons are gone. This is a good piston right out of the box. Better yet, these pistons will take a T6 heat treat! Egge does heat treat some of their pistons. With advance notice they probably would do it on a set of str8 pistons. Now we have a really good set of pistons, right out of the box!! Better yet!, with advance notice, they can/will fix you up with a set of semi-finished pistons!!! Why does anybody want that? So the piston can be machined up for moderen ring packages and whatever rings you want to use!!!! Send them the rings you want to use and they may do it for you!!! Yeah, YEAH!! Now we got some pistons that will take real power. If you don't care whats in your engine,well....It looks like to me that Egge got what we want. Buy Egge's pistons, it's going to be very hard to beat 'em. Alleycat
 
alley,
im in L.A. how far is this place from me? im always down for fun trips to new places. good research. helps us lazy folks.
 
I've bought valves, lifters, and a guide or 2 from Egge...they have the best customer service I've ever dealt with, and the valves were art! My machine shop didn't want to put them in an engine...the best part---Egge is cheaper than almost anywhere else for straight 8 parts...not cheap, but cheaper...
 
talked to an old buick racer, gasser racer, and he told me [if i remmbr right]that he used .090 over 228 GMC pistons in his 320". I happen to have some of those pistons and they shud work.they have the same piston height as 320 buick, but .998 pins, and probly give about 14 to 1 compression. He must have sleeved the pin holes, this also upped
the cubes to 356 inches. Also they weigh a ton. be good for an alcohol motor. he turned 137 mph at el mirage.
 
a little more on egge

Egge is in Santa Fe Springs, on Slauson, about 2 miles east off I-5. If any of you guys are even within "reasonable-ish" driving distance of egge, I highly recommend going for a look-see. They have a nice showroom, not over the top, but what you want to see, is the shop. The customer service is beyond the pale, and they may let you have a look. This should tell you all ya need to know!! If not, well...you're beyond even medical help..

A little more on pistons: Egge's piston is a husky unit, it comes in at about 560 grams on a .040 over 248. The pin is 110 grams, a chunk. They can be had up to .120 over. This will make for a heavy piston in a 320. The pistons probably can be seriously lightened up, there is a lot of metal in these and I don't think it would faze 'em. Check the pins in your old pistons, a lot of 'em are taper wall lightweights, if it fits the pin bore ok, use 'em. I REALLY like the dome, it's "plump". This means more volume, which = more compression! Running this piston out of the deck by about .010 and a shim head gasket, could get us in to the 7's, instead of the 6.4 or 5's. With a moderate head mill? Perhaps 8? I smell horsepower!! The skirt has a rather rough finish on it, not too wild about that, I'm use to seeing smoother. But! This may prove to be another benifit. I like piston coatings. Teflon, moly, etc. On a smooth surface, shortly after fire-up, on the thrust surface, it's gone. Str8's are not hard on piston thrust surface. With a rough-ish finish, the high spots may wear but the majority of the coating will stay in the '"craters". I like this.
All in all, these pistons are nearly unbeatable! Everything works! With a reasonable amount of further prep, there is no way that we can acheive power levels that can fail them! At least currently. Building a late 52 or 53 engine? Be careful of the rods. Or, just get a set out of a 50-1 engine. Prep 'em. Egge has cleavite bearings for the 248 and/or, king bearings for the rods!! King is really good! Michigan for the 263 & 320. Alittle harder bearing. Put togather. We now have a short block that can take some power. alleycat
 
aaaand,a little more.....

By now, you're about ''enough already!'' with the piston stuff!!! But, if the piston is'nt with the program, it will as they say ''be history''. I mentioned running the piston .010 out of the deck. The piston will actually stick out of the top of the engine by .010. This is a really good way to gain a lot of compression fast. Sometimes the piston is below the deck, or flush. A test assembly is required to determine just how much is or is'nt, and then how much is needed to be milled off the deck to get .010 out. Is there any chanch of the piston whack'in something while in action? Not a chanch. There are two head gaskets, a steel shim type, about .012-14 thick, and a composition, about .040. Obviously, the thicker one will lower comp. The cumbustion chamber is way larger than the actual bore, so the piston is out there by itself. Even the valves don't come close. Use the shim gasket. We could just mill the heck out of the head and not mess around with all this ''detail'' stuff....well, based on what I found when I cc'd all them str8 heads years ago, it'll take about .200 to start to get into some good compression, and taking that much off can create other problems. So, we have to take advantage of every trick we can. The last detail, piston rings. The higher the rings the better the power. Flush with the deck is great, head land rings were developed to do just that, but it's really hard on the rings to be that high and as a result, kind of finickey. That is, race only. The stock location is way down the piston, because of iron rings. Egge has moved the rings up a little, and the rings are still iron. With .010 out of the deck, they are .010 closer yet. Iron is just not a good hi-perf ring. We need better rings. It turns out that if we convert the bore sizes from inches to mm the std and oversizes fall on 1/2 and 1mm from 78.5 to 84mm for the 248 and 263. Well within the aisan car & bike bore sizes. These engines and hence, the rings, will take a heck of a beating. They will work fantastic in our str8's. 40% of the friction in a engine is from the piston unit. 70% of that is the rings. These are 3 ring packs, top ring thickness .047 or .059, 2nd .059 and oil .160-.180. This cuts the friction and weight by 1/2, and since the rings are thiner, the ring tension is reduced. These rings will reduce all these problems in the str8 by 75%, = horsepower. Use mazda 1.6 ltr 1971-77, .020-40-60, forstd,.020-40 and mazda 626 2.0 ltr stk, .020-40 for .060-80-.100 in the 248. At .100 over, or 81mm, which is std 263 bore, weisco pistons has a terrific moly ring pack, .060 thick 1 & 2nd from 81mm to 92mm. Covers all oversizes for 263, once again, the 263 is ''just right''. The 320 guys luck out the best. Harley Davidson 1200, 1948-mid 70's is exactly the same size as the 320, as are all the oversizes. Every kind of ring developed in the world has been made for HD. So, pick out the rings you like the best, send a pack to egge, have them machine the pistons to fit the rings, get a t-6 heat treat, anti friction coating, & you're good to go. The hp will follow. alleycat
 
OK, I'm new hear, and this post is making me crazy now. I've been thinking about using a 322 ('54) that I have sitting around for my '50 Jetback Special. The more I read this post the more I want to build my 248. Geesh, that twin turbo 51 is something else. On the naturally aspirated side, and for street use only, realistically, what kind of power could be had from my 248, 200 hp maybe?? Thanks. Gary
 
50 buick mods

gggg well this is something i wrestled with on my 50 buick sedanet, bak in 59'. I wanted to install a 322, and as i remmber it was not hard to do.[but then that was longtime ago].As i recall i needed a 322 w/dynaflow which would bolt to the stock torq tube. or if a stick [more involved]I could use the 36/38 buick floorshift, 322 flywheel/clutch/ bellhousing, 50' clutch pedal linkage,[depending what it had] In iether case use a dynaflow rear end. enginemounts havto be made up.[then go looking for 49/50 oldsmobiles] They looked cool with that 'ape-hanger' floorshift! but i like the straight 8,s too. [can still go looking]
 
Gnoub, If you follow most of my "hi-perf" things, you'll get every bit of 200 hp. I fully expect to hit that magic "horse per inch" mark with my 248. That'll be about 265 hp. alleycat
 
It would be nice if you published a spec sheet so we don't have to read lots of different posts. Ok, that would be too easy for us and too hard for you. While on the topic, on my 248, what would you do for carbs other than the stock 2 barrel?

Gary
 
I'm going to publish a "spec sheet", it'll be about 1" thick, consisting of a whole lot of spec sheets! Ha! Find a factory dual carb unit, its the best we have at this point. Its not so much about the extra carb as the shape of the manifold, the 2bbl is hopeless. alleycat
 
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