425 NailHead rebuild-Need advice

Hello to all. I need some advice, tips and tricks anything will help.
I'm rebuilding my 425 nailhead and want to build it to specs. I ordered the service manual already. So Im just about ready to pull the engine out. Its in a bad condition. Looks like its been abused. The oil is real dirty and there are leaks every where. My idea was to rebuild it myself, I dont have any rebuilding experiance, but I learn as I go. So before I do any real damage, where do I start. Should I take the time and do it myself, after all there is no other way of learning about your own car then to do it your self right? Or should I pay for it and take out the joy of doing it my self but have the piece of mind that comes along with a warranty?
Now as much as I would love a step by step instruction guide, it might be difficult to find. So instead throw me some pointers or things that I should look for or just some time saving tips. Thanks guys
BTW, I have a 64 la sabre wagon 3 seater, Bad A:shield:.:D
 
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Al You will need some special tools ( piston ring installer , torque wrench , a cylinder hone and ridge remover ) instead of buying you can rent from most parts stores . Read , Read and Read again the shop manual to understand how to do a rebuild then start and ask if unsure what to do ( so nothing gets broken ) . If you have to stop in the middle of something make a note for your next step ( so you don't forget something )Take photos before you take something apart ( so you will know where bolts and brackets go ) use bags for groups of bolts so you don't have a large box of bolt to look through later . HTH
John
Good luck on your project !
 
Thanx John, and great tip on renting the tools.I wouldnt of thought of that.
I was a ble to pull the engine and transmission. On monday Ima start taking the the engine apart and taking pix as I go. Ive put aside a few storage bins for parts, so I dont mix match. Im not sure what to do with the transmission, its a TH400. I think I might just take it to a shop and have done. Anyways thanx for the advice and luck. Ill keep you u guys posted. :shield:
 
If this is your 1st rebuild some of things you might not know will include, but not be limited to, understanding that the main bearing caps are bolted to the engine then machined in place so they will only work in the exact position they are in. Do not mix them up or turn them around or the crank will bind up when reinstalled. The rods are also marked and numbered so don't mix them up either. When rebuilding an engine the machine work is very important as it is the foundation of the building proccess.

Use new pistons and take them to your machine shop before the engine is bored so they can hone the bore for the final fit. The pistons are offset at the pin bore to prevent piston slap so they have to face in the proper direction when installed on the rods.

When installing the cam timing gears be aware that there are several different marks on the cam gear and I have seen people install these wrong so have someone show you the proper marks. Also remember that when the timing marks are lined up the # 1 cylinder is NOT in the proper firing position. I have watched people line up the marks, then install the dist. pointing to #1 and wonder why it won't start.

I hope this helps but don't be afraid to ask questions.
 
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Thanx for responding Jim, I did notice the markings on the main bearig caps, Ive gotten that far. I'm just havent figured out how to remove the pistons and the cam shaft or the timing gears. So Ima do some reading up. Im including some pix of one of the lifters that has damage, if someone can tell me why or how that could happen. Therers also some other pix of the engine. Thanx to all.
 
Suggest going to www.buickstreet.com & reading the 1 yr. long write-up on rebuilding the "NailHead'. Interesting reading, BUT, some of the facts are "WRONG". Very few "Nails" have the rods or pistons marked or indentified. So you must do this before removing them. Number one cylinder is the 1st. cylinder on the right, not the left as most others are. Cam bearing installation is very critical. even machine shops install them WRONG!!!! Don't let anyone talk you into "Hardened" seats, they aren't nec. in the "Nail". Proceed carefully & cautiously. Pics are sometimes not enough, write things down & take many notes!!!! You can do this. As they say, "Patience is a vertue".

Tom T.
 
Sweet! Thanx Tom. I have everything laid out in order and marked. I do have a question. I read the article that you mentioned on "building a better buick (Nailhead), and it mentions that if the cam is pulled out the cam and the block can be damaged (heres the link http://www.buickstreet.com/build-a-better-buick-nailhead-page6.html). Im a bit confused cause I dont see how that ring holding the cam securly can ruin the block if all you have to do is to remove the plug and remove the ring. Did I just screw up or is am I right?:confused:

What about shops? Any one know a place in Arizona that work on NailHeads?
 
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It should have been explained a little better. Most rebuilders usually take off the cam gear then give the cam a smack to knock out the rear cam plug. Of course the ole "Nail" has that snap ring & if you try & knock out the plug it will do damage to the groove or the block or both depending on how hard the cam was hit.

Tom T.
 
Thanx again Tom.


I am little discouraged though. I called TA performance and they quoted me a hefty price $5500:eek:. Thats for the complete rebuild, including pistons and cam. I'm just having a hard time justifying that price, my jaw dropped and forgot to ask for anymore details. Is that my only option or can I do this a little at a time?
The engine does not show any sign of it being rebuilt. It still has the original pistons. Now the cam show signs of uneven wear. Ill post pix tonight. So with that said. Whats my next step. What should I be looking for and what are good prices. I want to make sure my engine is done right, but at the same time I dont want to pay someone to have all the fun. I want to put her back together myself. You guys know what Im saying? Thanx for the advice and help, it makes a big diffrence to know I have commrads out there that share the same love for our girls.:shield:
 
Ok sorry for the massive Pix, instead ill just add thumbnails from photobucket. This is what my heads, block and pistons look like. I hope this helps.
th_HEads1.png
th_HEads2.png
th_pistons.png
th_Pinstonsnblock2.png
th_Pistonsnblock1.png
 
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I have rebuilt several engines. I normally take them apart myself. Then have the blocks hot tanked and surfaced and honed at a good and reputable machine shop. I do follow the procedure that was described. Absolutely make sure to keep your bearing caps and connecting rods in order. Also the pistons as well.

I had the shop deck the block (where the heads mate to the block.) This takes the waves out of that mounting surface for a truer compression across the cylinders and a better head seal. Also, I have the heads surfaced. They also line bore the block and hone it, or bore it. I have them press in new valve guides and do the valve seats as well. I usually put on new valve springs and lifters and push rods, and rockers.
I don't have the machinery to do that kind of work, so I take it in and have them do it. The last time I did an engine, they assembled the short block and degreed the cam for me for $50, so I couldn't pass that up.

I use zip lock bags and post it notes and a sharpy to write of each set of bolts is for and where they go. That way , if it takes me a long time to before I finish, I don't forget what the bolts are for. I also take many pictures.

That price for a rebuild kit sounds pretty darn high. I think you could buy a cam from comp and either reuse the old pistons, or have some made that would cost you less than that. Get a felpro engine kit and cleavite bearings, and you should be good.

I am not sure if you have taken the crank out, but you can either push the pistons out the ends when you disconnect the rods, or take out the crank and then push them through the bottom. Cam will probably have to be removed first.

One tip. Be sure and put pieces of rubber hose over the connecting rod bolts, so you don't scratch or mar your crank shaft.

Good Luck.
 
Thanx For responding 62Buick Fan. Thats the kind of info I was looking for. I talked to TA performance about rebuilding it for me, but the price seemed a little high for me. They said a complete rebuild w/ my choice of cams and rockers for 5 grand. Then someone else told me thats the kind of price I should expect to pay. I want to have fun working on her myself, but at the same time make sure its done right. So Im stuck deciding. In the mean time I'm trying to gather as much info as I can. Does anyone know of a good shop in Az?
Anyways, thanx Tom for pointing that out. Obviously (and yes thats the correct way to spell it) I've never rebuilt my engine before, plus I'm pretty sure I mentioned that in my first post. I mean thats why I'm here right cause I want to learn. I can honestly say I need all of your help, and if possible pick your brains. All the money in world couldn't pay for hard earned knowledge. So there you go Tom :thumbsup:, I love my Buick and all you guys here that have helped out are the coolest kats around. :shield:
 
Search around your area for a good machine shop. Also, maybe hit a cruise night or car show and ask around. Normally, if a shop is not very good, you will find out pretty quickly. That is how I found the shop I used. I talked to a lot of people and then made my choice.
They could do all the line boring and decking and hardened valve seats and everything that I needed done.
I think you should try to do this yourself if possible. They can be frustrating, but it is a great feeling when you twist the key and they fire up and run. Also, you should be able to save some money as well.

I probably never need to rebuild this engine as it only has 70K on it, however, something could happen to it. I run it pretty hard when I do dirve it. I crack open the secondaries and run it up to 90 to 100 for a little while.
The body is not all the good on the car, so if something happened to the engine, I would probably just scrap it. It does leak a little oil around those 45 year old gaskets, so new gaskets would make my garage happier.
 
Most all "Nails", unless they were badly overheated in their lifetime normally don't need line boring or honing. The factory machine work in this area was as good as they come. When you line bore you will have a forever loose timing chain & NOBODY makes a shorter one for our "Nails". We don't even run hardened seats in our race "Nail". The nickel content of the cast iron is pretty high & it's been proven HARDENED SEATS ARE NOT NEC. Water is very close. If hardened seats are put they usually start leaking shortly or everything will seem OK for a short period of time then all of a sudden they start to leak. My suggestion, DON'T DO IT!!!!!!! As far as I'm concerned 5.5K is not a lot for a quality rebuild using QUALITY PARTS!!!!!!!

Tom T.
 
Egge Machine has pistons. Telriv is correct you do NOT need hardened seats and because of the head design it will tolerate todays fuel very well. I have a 40 over 401 with 10.5 to 1 compression in my 62 wagon and it runs great on regular unleaded. You may have to use premium unleaded in your 425.

I saw complete rebuild kits on ebay for $1500 but I would want to make sure the parts are at least as good as the factory used if not better. I have always used TRW rod & main bearings and a moly top ring. The cam choice on a Buick should enhance the torque of the engine and these motors don't like a lot of RPM so keep that in mind. The early 425 cam works great when installed with 0 lead.
 
I just had a 1965 425 rebuilt here in Fort Worth including all of the above, heads, valves etc. and it was $1500 all in. All new pistons, rings, bearings, had a bad crank but the shop had one on the shelf (you would have to see this place, been in business at least 50 years and has engines, cranks, parts stuck every where.) Owner said "we just happened to find a crank on the shelf".:clonk:

Good luck with yours.
 
Its been a while and a lot has changed.
Here's a quick update: Two kids later and a divorce I had to let the wagon go. I had my nephew store it in his trusty garage. Two years later I get a call that the engine and trans are missing.
No time to dwell on it cause life has a few more curve balls to throw at me.
12 years later I get the wagon back. She's been through hell, broken heart and neglected.

I got two boys 13 and 9 yrs old and they are excited to make this our project, which has me excited.

Last but not least I want to say thank you to this amazing community and to the members. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your valuable time.
 
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