hey guys recently i purchased a 63 le sabre very good condition. exeped for one problem my brake lights don't work . signal lights work perfectly, when i turn the lights they also work only when i press the brakes thats when they wont turn on i check the fuse box everything is fine need some help!!!!!!

remove and inspect the bulbs in a strong light. there should be two strands of wire inside. if not, you need to replace them.

Also check the ground for the bulbs at rear in trunk. HTH

I Didn't Understand The Part About The Lights Only Working When You Press The Brakes (?)


But Have You Tried Replacing The Brake Light Switch?

I Didn't Understand The Part About The Lights Only Working When You Press The Brakes (?)


But Have You Tried Replacing The Brake Light Switch?

When i press the brake pedal the brake light don't turn on signal lights work good. every now en then the brake lights will turn on but very rarely i will say 99.9% of the time they wont turn on.

since you do have brake lights SOMETIME, the bulbs are okay. i think guyopel might be correct. inspect and clean the contact area between the bulb and wiring. this may require using a wire brush to remove any corrosion that has built up on the contacts

WD-40 or contact cleaner or some such never hurt nothin either. i mean for while you're using a brush to clean the contacts.

also brush the base of the bulb. corrosion is an equal opportunity destroyer and rust never sleeps.

The turn signals use the same filiment in the bulbs that the turn signals do. So, if the turn signals work, the bulbs are fine. If you turn on the headlights, and the lights work, that's the second (smaller) filiment. If, with the taillights on, you try the turnsignals, and they come on, your ground is fine.

So, leave the bulbs alone.

Two possibilities exist.

1. The brakelight switch is bad or needs adjustment. It's easy to find, look over the brake pedal arm under the dash. It has a piston that moves against the pedal arm. These often go bad. Also check the electrical connector going into the switch.

2. Inside the steering column is another switch that redirects whether the rear lights get power from the turn signal line or the brake light line. Bad contacts in this switch will also cause the brakelights not to work.

If the car has been sitting, these contacts may be dirty. Sometimes, something as simple as working the turn signal lever back and forth as few dozen times (after spraying contact cleaner into the slot the arm goes into the steering column at) may fix it.

But I'd bet on #1.

Jim T.

I would like to thank all of you for your support. after trying all available options and still getting no result i thought i was doing some thing wrong. I happend to go to auto zone to buy some filters and I asked the associate to see if they had a brake swich available. To my luck they did they had one at there sister store. I bought it for $3.99 . i picked it up took it home and replace it. Even though I had cleaned the old one pretty good I steel had my doughts. After replacing the part I turned the car on and Baaaaaam!!! light turned on tryed it several times no promblems.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!

I am at a loss to find out why I have no brake lights also.Have turn signals and headlight tailight action but no brake light.There are two homeless wires with a plug lurking around the firewall next to the master cylinder and they are blue in color.My presumption is the brake lights are unplugged so have tried to locate where the brake lights plug into the brake switch but cannot find.Anyone pleeeeeze...Thanks

not sure about the rivvy, but on the wildcat, there is a switch on the brake pedal mount - next to the steering column (inside the car). the switch works when you release presssure by putting on the brake.

It might be stuck in the closed position - I wouldn't mess with anything else till you eliminated this possibility - it's a cheap fix, just make sure the pedal closes it when there's no pressure on the brake.

since I'm usually working by myself, I tape a piece of alum foil on the garage, and another on the inside of the door, so I can see if the brake lights are working.

g'luck, keep us posted
Butch
64 Wildcat 445
64 Lesabre 310
455 in the works
:shield:
:shifter:

Hey Butch thanks for the reply.I have not replaced the switch yet because there are no wires connected to it and since I have a homeless set of wires in the neighborhood of it I thought finding out where the wires should be and seeing if there are any would be the first step.I presume they would connect at the back of the brake actuator switch.I will replace the brake switch also as good measure.The car also used to have a traler hitch ..shreik..so hope it doesn't get ugly.Also car had not ran or driven for 18 years so thing are coming back to life over these last six months.Do you know what color the wires are for brake lights presuming they are the same for the Wildcat?
Thanks much -Bruce
Black 63 Riviera " J " code 465 Super Wildcat:clonk:

If your '63 Riv has the original single master, the brake switch is connected to the back end of the master with blue wires. Though, over the years, if someone changed this, it will be difficult to determine just from color. Hopefully, my attachment comes through.

Thanks Cheezeman ! Yes your Att came through.I think I attached a pic of my master with the two prong ble wire plug draped unceremoniously over the master cylinder.Yes there is no male receptacle to recieve the feame plug rather there is a drain plug exaclty where your plug is located.My question is this : Q-is the back of the master simple a place for the two connections to junction or is there a real and physical plu built into the master? I suspect that the not on the back of the master is simply the place that holds the connector and there is a wire below that that continues on elsewhere.In the latter case it means that there ae two blue wires unaccounted for which continue probably into the firewall?Please elabrate ASAP.VERY helpful pic and I am really excited to get this info...Thanks-Bruce

Sorry I didn't see a picture in a previous post. Glad my picture came through, as it may have been my first try at that. Sounds to me the drain plug you have mentioned could be where the switch goes, assuming the master you have is an original type. Being plugged means the switch could have been relocated. Sometimes a '64 switch is added to the brake pedal when the single master is swapped for a dual. You may want to trace the wires to see where they end up.

Attached is a picture of the switch that screws into the single master. You can see the 2 terminals where the wire connector would attach. It's just a simple SPST pressure switch, so you could short the blue wires just to see if the lights come on, otherwise the wiring may have been adjusted for another configuration.

Caution, though, if the wires were redone, shorting could cause something else to happen. Check with a voltage tester first. It may be something you will need to do a bit digging around to see where they go.

If you have the shop manuals I believe the wiring diagrams are in there to aid in your diagnostics. The Chassis Service manual has figure 10-160 showing the entire electrical of the car.

If you don't have the shop manuals, why not? Their cost can be significantly smaller than the cost to fix something done wrong.

Good luck!

Ijust been thinking; can you tell if the master cylinder is the original? could be someone installed a different master cylinder from a car that used the brake light switch that was on the steering column. i go with shorting the two blue wires to seee if the brake lights come on - if they do, buy the prseeure switch and install it in that "drain" hole, with the blue wires attached.

I've seen some pressure switches mounted in a "T" on the brake line.

I haven't been successful in posting a pic.

I never sit down to "think" cars, till after the sun has gone down - I'll leave myself a note to check out the two master cylinders on my Buicks tomorrow
cheers
Butch

Hey All: Yes "Wildkitty" you are right on target and thanks to "Cheezman" late last night I figured it out.What I was unaware of is the switch is actuated by fluid and screws onto the back of the master.Mine has a plug.I did contact the blue wires and viola brake lights came on ! Now the darn drain nut wont come off and I lack the electrical fitting for the new switch so I am soldering some leads tonight to the back of the switch to rig something up til I can find the part.Thank you all for your help.You are all amazing to take the time to help!
Bruce in San Francisco and
"Helen" The all black 63 J Code Riviera "The car you'll wear":hurray:

if you cannot "definitely" get the plug out, see if you can remove the brakeline - the get a "T", and a couple fittings and attached the brakeline to the T, with the pressure switch on the other opening.

you might have to get a reducer for the pressure switch.

have you tried penetrating oil on the drain plug? the correct socket and some leverage might break it loose. definitely use the correct wrench for the brakeline, might cost you a couple $, but you don't want to round the fitting off.

next option, check the local junk yards for a master cylinder that will fit.

look up "Wheatbelt Buick" in Oklahome, call Ken or Sue, they have acres of 60s Buicks - they will send you a good original master cylinder - OR anything else you need for your Buick.
keep us posted
Butch

Bruce, glad to see you are making progress!

After reviewing some other photos, the master you have could be from a 64 or 65. In 64 they moved the switch to the modern location, near the brake pedal. I've seen some 64s with the master plugged at the end. Not sure if that plug was ever intended to be removed. Maybe some 64 or 65 Rivi guys can add or correct me on this.

I've also seen the "T" that Butch is referring to. When 63s are converted to dual cylinder, some put that "T" in the line at the master to avoid re-routing the electrical to the pedal, because a dual master doesn't have a hole for the switch. There have been several posts about single to dual conversions on this site that may be able to help you with the details on the "T".

Now may be a good time to flush and fill the brake system, if it hasn't been done in a while. I just did mine last fall. What a difference it made!! I now feel all 4 brakes working. I thought I was needing a brake job, but the fluid change made it respond much better, so much so that I did it to my other cars. Hey, some like horse power, but I like brake power even more. Call me funny that way.

Hey guys: FINALLY got the plug out which required welding a socket to the nut...then two Hail Marry's with a torque wrench and voila.Had to play hardball on that one.
Yes cheezeman brakes are good always...Going fast is as important as stopping fast.Luckily my brakes are excellent.
Lates challenge is the instrument panel lights.Replaced the circuit panel which was trashed and now have only AMP guage lighting.Suspect a ground problem.Replacing ignition switch housing which is dodgy and I have been told ground runs also through the headlight switch so replacing that also.
Oh and NOISY lifters.....sigh
Best Bruce:shifter:

Bruce,
I'm assuming you have a volt/ohm meter...
set your ohm meter on "beep" and go around the circuit board and check for ground connectivity. if you find a break in the ground strip you can repair it with liquid solder. use a soft brass wire brush to clean all the bulb sockets... needless to say, check all the bulbs, also with the ohm setting; should get a beep between the casing and the lead tip.

glad you got the pressure switch taken care of.

noisy lifters?? hydralic lifters, eh? try some penetrating oil on the lifters, then some mystry oil - course, change the oil after you've used the penetrating oil.

the 455 was sitting on the floor of a barn for almost 5yrs when I got it. penetratin oil and mystry oil brought the compresson back up and quieted down the lifters. - little moisture = rust = sticky rings and lifters.

I shudda followed my own advice and gave the bendix some attention. it was spinning/starting the engine, but not engaging all the way = new starter :( when it didn't disengage all the way.
Butch

[quote=WildKitty;69008]Bruce,
I'm assuming you have a volt/ohm meter...
set your ohm meter on "beep" and go around the circuit board and check for ground connectivity. if you find a break in the ground strip you can repair it with liquid solder. use a soft brass wire brush to clean all the bulb sockets... needless to say, check all the bulbs, also with the ohm setting; should get a beep between the casing and the lead tip.

glad you got the pressure switch taken care of.

noisy lifters?? hydralic lifters, eh? try some penetrating oil on the lifters, then some mystry oil - course, change the oil after you've used the penetrating oil.

the 455 was sitting on the floor of a barn for almost 5yrs when I got it. penetratin oil and mystry oil brought the compresson back up and quieted down the lifters. - little moisture = rust = sticky rings and lifters.

I shudda followed my own advice and gave the bendix some attention. it was, but not engaging all the way = new starter :( when it didn't disengage all the way.
Butch[/quote
Hey butch: I have a new circuit board so probably no ground interruption in that but will check anyway.
Funny you would mention bendix problems and spinning starters.Same here with my 465.I will replace it soon.
Good tip on the penetrating oil for the noisy lifters.I thought there is a way to adjust lifters to quiet them but maybe no?
My car had not ran in some 10+ years and was abandoned at an rv park in Washington then in someone's backyard here in San Francisco Bay Area so "moisture = rust" rule applies...lol
Thanks! Bruce

Hey Butch:With regard to no temp/cold/hot/fuel- etc guages: I have replaced the trashed curcuit board and will check for ground interruption with ohm meter BUT..could anything else be causing this? EG: could it be a bad connection at ignition housing or bad ground at headlight switch control? I do have AMP light prior to starting and of course E brake bulb lights up because it does not run through cicuit panel but know AMP does ..Does it make any difference what year circuit panel is??New one looked identical to old one.Really puzzled
Thanks everyone for the benefit of your experience !
Bruce

I know on the Wildcat, the ig switch and headlight switchgo thru a plastic instrument panal. there is a plate that the switches snug up to - to connect the switch itself to ground. there could be some corrosion between the switch and the plate. use your ohm meter between the face of the switch and the grounding circuit on the circuit board.

anywhere there is plastic or circuit board, there has to be a "jumper" between the ground and the switches.

I'm assuming you have the instrument panal out where you can work with it.. you need to make a jumper between the car body and the fiberboard circuit panal's ground.

the dashboard for the LeSabre is behind a door that has a couple feet of snow in front of it. I'll look on the 64 Buick CD and see if I can copy the wiring diagram for the dash.

"Detroit Iron" has the manuals on CD for most any muscle car. I have the one for ALL 64 Buicks + for the 67 Impala (all 67 Chevys). they are only $30, and worth every cent. you can find them online - they are quick to get them in the mail for you
Butch

Great advice as always.
This forum is so usefel !
Whycome I don't have an R.B.O.A. # ? ..lol
Thanks for the advice...BTW have lots of 63 Riv parts that I would practically give away because I hate to throw them in the bin..eg:windshild wiper switch.full set of 63 seats + 2 seat frames (1 power with motor) I chrome shift bezel,head bolts,vaccum hoses,speedo and amp bezels,descent recovered dash.etc.
Thanks Yall,Bruce