I like the V6 that is my car a 77 Skylark but stock its only a 105 hp, my Ford Escort has more, but I have been checking on items to do a rebuild and hop ups, I have found headers and rebuild kit but not much else, so I don't know if it will have performance enough that I can get from a 350, and with the price of gas do you think I would end up with better mileage from the 231 or the 350, since it will take less to get the car moving with a 350 then it would with the 231. I really need some input...I want to get started doing one or the other.

you first need to tell yourself whether or not you want gas mileage, or power. are you doing highway miles, or mostly running around impressing the chicks at the local dairy queen? Know what I mean? I personally would go with the 350, just cause it has a little more umph for the buck. But then again, you can't really price things out for Buicks, cause they're all over priced to begin with. I was toying around with putting a chevy in my 71 skylark just because I could get 500 hp. for the price of 350 hp out of a buick block. I decided to just stick with the buick for little to no reasons worth mentioning. Hope it helps I guess.

Being as you are asking the question, I would feel that your probably not really in love with the 350 idea at any cost. So I would suggest serious consideration to just "dolling" up the 231. A few mods will probably make you happy, and if you do them right, you will even get better gas milage!

graemlins/shield.gif

If we can assume that the V6 is ready for a rebuild anyway, go for high comp pistons, a street cam from someone like comp, crane or isky, and the normal bearings etc., and you can wake it up quite nicely.
If you are prepared to do the work and spend the cash, a properly prepared 350 is the way to go - but bear in mind you will be doing a lot of work and spending quite a bit of cash!!
Either way, you can't lose really, can you?
People to speak to for parts kits? Try PAW, Speed-o-motive, Summit Racing, or you can trawl the web and find individual parts possibly cheaper
Best of luck,
Malc

I appreciate your suggestions, I in a way your right I don't want to go through the hassle of getting another motor, I like the V6 it just needs some umph, it has nothing off the line but on the freeway it runs like nobodies business. The motor has 90+ thousand miles and its doe for build, and I have looked on the web for parts but its been a struggle to find 231 specific parst. Maybe I will just have to go to my local shop and see if they can help me on getting some performance. I do like milage..and the way the price of gas is going...I want to keep it...thanks again.

I'm a bit old for the Dairy Queen scene and I am sure my wife would not like me checking out sceniory.

One more thing, the car has Air conditioning, but doesn't produce much on the cold side, I think its a fre-on(sorry no spell check) type system, am I still able to get it recharged and if not what would it take to make it compliant with todays type. Would I need to just change one thing or the whole system to make it work?

Don,
Speed-o-Motive are in California (San Diego, I think), so at least they are in the same state. If you phone them they are very helpful, and will let you select the parts to put a kit together, I think a basic master kit to suit a 231 is about $350 - 400, with pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, and cam etc., so they are certainly not too expensive. I bought a kit for a 383 Chrysler from them a long time ago, & if their service is still the same you won't be disappointed.
Best of luck,
Malc

Don,
Speed-o-motive, 131 North Lang Ave, West Covina, California.
Ph. (626) 869-0270
Fax (626) 869-0278
Deluxe Master Rebuild Kit
cast or forged pistons, rings, rod and main brgs, gasket set, cam & lifters, oil pump
231 non-turbo cast $345 forged $615
231 turbo cast $495 forged $645
www.speedomotive.com (http://www.speedomotive.com)
Malc

Malc, thanks for the tip, West Covina is just a few miles down the frwy from here...I will defently check out there site and give a them a call for a bit of Q & A about parts.

Really appreciate the tip!

Well gents, I appreciate all your info, but at the moment I have a new problem. The motor over heated, darn gauge didn't work.....well know when I start the engine, its running really rough. I would like to know your opinions of what is wrong and if it means taking the engine apart, then I guess now is a good time as any for the rebuild. Oh by the way I didn't notice any water in the oil, but I am not sure exactly what it would look like in the first place.

graemlins/wavey.gif Hi Don

That Gm 3800 (231) is a Super Motor. I have the Supercharged Version in my 2000 Regal GSE. 240 hp and with slight modification I can get 300 hp. I get 30mpg on the highway 25 round town. I don't know if they make replacement motors for real wheel drives. Then again you can always upgrade to a Turbo Grand National Powerplant. They are making 231 Blocks to accomodate 1000 hp.
If You want a daily driver with fuel economy in mind you could rebuild or pick up a 3.8 Goodwrench Motor for RWD. That Motor was the standard engine for some Camaro's and Firebirds which were RWD. You will have to Shop around. Dealer/Distributors will vary in price as much as $500.00. I found the cheepest guy and he delivered the motor to my door for 1800. I now have 267,684 miles on that same motor. The Buick 231 V-6 was selected as one of the 10 best Engines of the 20 Century.
Let us know how You make -out. After all WE are all concerned with Resurecting Buicks. Many of US, Yours Truely are in the process of bringing bringing a Buick back to like after it was given up for dead. We don't want any Buicks living a past life as Ghosts, or Skeletons in a closet till our dying day. My '56 is called The Banshee, for just that reason.
Good Luck with Your Endeavor graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/beers.gif

Tom Gallagher graemlins/shield.gif

Tom, I appreciate your suggestions. Will my transmission bolt up the motors that you have suggested? If so that would be a great idea, fuel injection instead of carb, I like the idea or will I need/ or should I get the trans to go along with it.

Hey Don,

I don't know What Type of Trans You have, but I sure you will have a few options. There are Vendors/Suppliers that made Trans Adaptors for Bellhousings for many Applications.
I will be the First to tell you that I'm to Totally versed on the Subject of Engine swopping, but Most any Alternative is possible to be Performed. What it comes down to is How much Money does it Cost and How much You can affort to spend. Then there is The Computer Compatability issues, which Fuel Injection would probably require.
That Facit I'm not real familiar with. I have a tough enough time operating This machine I'm writing on.(LOL) Fuel Injection and Computers and the Techknowledgy are far beyond My understanding and comprehension.
I don't want to sound like I'm brushing you off, but you probably may be able to get better answers on the Late Model Engines Forum of Buick.net Tech. I'm not totally versed on the Subject, and I certainly wouldn't want to steer you in the wrong direction. I know there are Members on Buicks.net who are knowledgeable and have Hands-On Experience on the Subject
I hope there are some other Members who can shed more favorable light on the subject, where You can get the correct and proper answers to your intregueing questions.

Tom Gallagher graemlins/shield.gif

Tom I understand technology, but you are correct I didn't think of the computer, I will have to take that into consideration, Thanks!

Well you hit it though, how much am I willing or able to spend.

What I would like to do is something to improve the over all power/performance and try and keep the milage. I know its tuff to do but that is were I see this going.

I do appreciate your knowledge and suggestions keep them coming. And I will visit other parts of the site and hope I get the same friendly replies that you have given.

I've had my 77 Skylark 3.8 since '96 and have rebuild the motor once and considered swaps a number of times, currently I have the 3.8 with a 200r4 overdrive behind it for excellent mileage. Your stock trans should be the standard 200. When it come to rebuilding, make sure you know if you have the even fire or odd fire V6, noted by the spacing of the spark plug wires on the cap. There are more options for the even fire engine. Going with a fuel injected system in CA (I've researched it) means stricter emission testing at the smog stations, though in 2007 we shouldn't have to worry about it. Going with the 350 (or 455 ;) )would just require the bigger engine passing the six cylinder emissions, piece o' cake with that car. I was a week away from putting a 455 in the car when I bought a 72 Centurion with a blown motor, go figure. But now I have a blown motor to rebuild smile.gif just a crank shaft away.

Oh yeah, to note, putting the 200R4 in required no, I repeat NO modifications or anything, it was a straight swap, just have to ignore the shift indicator being slightly off, and I had the torque converter lock up modified to lock automatically in fourth gear.

Radal,

Fill me in what is the 3.8 out of and what is a 200R4, I appreciate the info on the possiblities with a fuel injected motor, that helps in that decision...won't be going there, I don't really want to deal with any smog issues...

There are numerous mods you can make to your original 231 V6. Alot of the off road guys have been using this motor for years and making good power with it. Edlebrock offers a intake manifold for it that is a dual plane 4 barrel set up. quite a bit of the Buick 350 stuff will fit with little to no modification. Things like springs rockers, etc. Poston offers various cam kits for the 231, but you really have to watch the lift with any of the small Buick motors. Waht happens is that on the cam profile at full open on the valves you will usually run into spings binding where a numbers of coils will be crushed together. Comp Cams offers cams for this motor to that are matched to the correct springs and lifters. As with any motor a good balancing and blueprinting will do wonders for both the longetiivty and the durability of the motor. I can't stress enough though that you should definitely use a new front cover and a steel thrust plate for the oil pump when it is rebuilt. The original front cover usually takes a pretty good beating internally and most of the time will have deep scoring which all leads to lower than expected oil pressure and cavitation. As stated above the 200R4 is pretty much a direct bolt in. It's the only overdrive tranny that I know of that uses the BOP bolt pattern. Let me know if I can be of help in the parts dept. A carry alot of these parts in stock. graemlins/shield.gif

The 3.8 is the original engine that came in the car in '77, mine is an odd fire, late '77 Skylarks and all '78 and newer 3.8's are even fire. The 200R4 is the designation of the Transmission, Turbo Hydramatic 200R4. Those came in a lot of cars from the 80's. I got mine out of an '83 Buick Lesabre, but they come in nearly all GM's cars from the mid 80's to the early 90's. I think only the Firebirds, Camaros and Trucks came with the larger 700R4, so looking in any other RWD GM car with overdrive would have one.

Oh yes, Update on the smog laws in CA, no longer is the rolling 30 year exemption in place, the details are still a little fuzzy but instead it looks like a rolling 30 years of a more lenient smogging, I think the test will be limited to gas cap and tail pipe test (which even for '77 is very broad), so all visual inspection is eliminated. But it would still be 2007 before the 1977 model year would qualify. Just thought I'd add that since I touched on the exemption earlier.

Randal, was there any mods that you had to do to install the 2004 transmission, you know like the drive shaft or shift linkage, torque converter. I am really interested in the possiblity of putting that transmission into my car. Mileage is the key to me keeping this car, if I can't improve its mileage I can afford to run it and will have to stick with my escort or look for something else and sell the Buick. Get back to me ASAP. Thanks

As long as you have a Hydromatic 200 in the car now (I believe all 3.8's came with it), the 200R4 bolts right in, down the the driveshaft, bellhousing bolts and torque converter. The toughest part is the lock up converter. If you know a guy that works on GM transmissions they should know how to build the 200R4 to lock the converter up automatically in 4th gear(with a 12V power source), otherwise there are products out there to simulate the computer controlling of it. It is a guarenteed 33% lower rpm not including the slip the torque converter used to have. My 3.8 runs well, but gets crap milage (I think it is the cam) and I went from 15-17mpg on the highway to 22-24mpg. A better example was in my '69 Firebird 400, I went from 17mpg to 28mpg (fuel efficient cam) with the swapping of the transmission.

P.S. A fuel efficient cam generally gives good low end torque which is the feel of responsiveness at low engine speeds. So if you rebuild the engine and get a good torque cam you should be satisfied with the power feel so long as you are not really quarter mile racing.

Don, I'll start with the freon question. The proper way to update is to have the system evacuated, flushed thoroughly. and recharged with R134a refrigerant. Cars with small condensers (shouldn't be a problem on yours) may need a small add on electric fan to keep good airflow across it. On the engine question, when you overheated you could have cracked a head adding a little more to your rebuild. Other than turbo 3.8's I'm not sure if there were any fuel injected RWD 3.8's made, but if there were and you were lucky enough to find a whole car say wrecked in the rear but good running and emission compliant, you would need the wiring harness and all the sensors and the computer and the matching transmission as a complete set. Seems like a lot of trouble, I know, but if it was done right would make plenty of power compared to 77 231 and far better gas mileage and driveability than either of those carbureted engines. Of course if you used a turbo engine combo out of say 86/87 Regal, your 77 would scream and get great mileage when not screaming too much. Trouble for me would be keeping my foot out of it.
Dan

the Skylark,

I appreciate the insite! I have gotten away from changing the motor, after some investigation and information from this site, its more then I want to do. So rebuild and slightly modify or hop up the 231 is the path I am looking to...presently I am searching for a 200R4 trans at a resonable cost and some type of warranty.

I have talked with some other people and they tell me about some linkage geometry that must be right or I could burn up the trans..any thoughts on that. I don't have much knowledge on this and overdrive transmissions.

Once the transmission is installed I understand that the rear mount will have to be modified or changed to fit the new trans. Any one have any knowledge on a So Cal trans place that could do this type of upgrade and make sure all is correct?

I really do appreciate all of your suggestions and support. Thanks again.

The only linkage change is the Throttle Valve Cable (TV Cable), the original 200 comes with a down shift cable and works on a different principle than the TV cable. Unfortunately I did/do not have the stock linkage holder for the accelerator and TV cables, so I am not sure if the stock linkage bracket will work or need to be changed to a mid-80's carburetated 231 bracket. But once installed the TV cable needs to be adjusted properly for the proper shifting and to keep from burning up the trans. I recommend having a transmission person either teach you how to set it or have them set it up for you. I had the benifit of working at a new car dealership at the time, so our tranny guy helped me out with it. As for the cam, I still recommend a high torque/high vacuum one for the efficiency.

Ok guys, you won't believe it, I finally understand what you have talked about the TV cable...I found a site that told me all about it...now I can move forward. Feeeewwwww, I was really starting to get worried over the TV cable.

But at www.bowtieoverdrives.com, (http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com,) they all the info..and with the visual help it will really make things a lot easier.

I really appreciate all your help and information, I know I have said this a lot, but you all deserve the praise and thanks for your information and support. Know if the holidays will come and go I can get started.

Thanks again.

Best part it is all free of charge, Buick On Man tongue.gif

Well the Holidays will soon be over and now with the Santa Ana's blowing, it almost makes me want to start on the rebuild. But I will just have to wait another couple of months for solid weather. I hope all of you have a great holiday seasons, and you have the best of New Years.

I agree w/ your wish to put a TH200r4 into your 77. I'd someday like to do the same OD swap for my Regal. Aren't The Th200/200r4/350 all the same overall length and direct swaps for each? I think I have some info that might help you or others in their search for this combo.
I'm not sure when GM started building the TH200,
but all 3.8s didn't come w/the TH200. My family's owned several 80-86 g-bodies and 5 had 3.8s'
My 81 regal limited coupe has a 3.8 2bbl/ TH350c,
Grandpa's 80 Cutlass 4dr had 3.8 2bbl/TH350,
my 80 MonteCarlo cpe had 3.8 4bbl Turbo/TH350,
the 85 Cutlass Supreme cpe had 3.8 2bbl/ TH200c,
and my 80 Cutlass Supreme had 3.8 2bbl/Th350.
My TH350c was rebuilt to Turbo6/V8 Spec and runs great (slightly stiff shifts) in my Regal. I used to get 22mpg hwy when I bought the car w/ 68k, but it went downhill as the car has aged. I made a sacrifice for low speed to gain mileage on the hwy when I swapped the 2.41 posi from the Monte Carlo Turbo for my 2.73 open rear. It runs great for cruising without the OD , but it's slow around town and kinda a gas pig in stop n go.
Don't know if this helps anyone, but hopefully...

The 200R4 is the same lenght as the 350, but the transmission mount is farther back, within an 1/8th of an inch of a TH400.

If this is a carbureted car, has no one thought of adding a NOS plate under the carb for some hp boost only when needed? Maybe it's not kosher with the CA smog laws, I wouldn't know here in KS.

The Oldsmobile web site has a lot of good information about the 200R4 transmission, and a diagram of how to wire for the lockup converter. The transmission guy I worked with set it up so the lockup only works when I'm at highway speed, this way it doesn't always lock and unlock in town driving. I don't know how he did it, but it locks up at about 55 mph.

Ed

Ed do you have the address for the Oldsmobile site you were talking about. I would like to check it out.

Ok, I have a bit of a motor question, my car over heated and now it runs rough. I checked the oil and no water was in it. I was thinking that I might have either a blown head gasket or craked head.

If so how can I check to find out what and were the problem would be. I have 231 v6, if that helps.

Don, if you are interested, I have a 76 Century 350 with just under 40,000 on a complete rebuild. I am swapping to a 455 olds due to need for my wagon to haul. The 350 runs great and has passed emissions here. I am in Seattle. If you are still looking to replace your v6 I think (not sure) this motor may bolt right in. Let me know if this is something you are still interested in. It is totally stock right down to engine paint. 4bbl Quad stock.

Yogi, that is interesting, what kinda price are you looking for, and would that include all the excessories....water pump, starter, headers, bell housing...well you know what I'm getting at.
Let me know..

The entire engine including starter, water pump was new with the rebuild. Stock manifolds no headers on this. This is a totally stock 76 350.
Original Quad 4bbl and bell housing comes with it. I was looking at between $400 & $500 based on market up here. Let me know. It will be pulled in next 3 to 4 weeks. If you could be here at that time you could here it run. It does come with A/C but will need to be recharged. The only thing in the compartment I will be keeping is the vacumn accessories. This is a must as the wagon I have is somewhat rare. It is a 76 Buick "Custom" Century. It has more options that most Cadillac's. Otherwise the engine etc is yours.

I appreciate the offer, but at this time that is way more then I can afford...thanks.

Hello everyone, hope all is well with you and your family. I am looking for a 200R4 transmission, used but in good working order. Let me know. About to get the project under way.

I have found a couple of 200R4 transmission, one 350 and one 400 version. Would anyone know which would be the correct one to install with my 231 V6? You help and support is appreciated as always.

Thanks

If anyone has any information on this it would really help me out.

If anyone has info on these transmissions it would really help me out.

Well the teardown has started...so I should have the motor completely apart by the end of the week. I will find places to do the block and heads, if anyone has a suggestion on some local(So. Cal/LA or Orange County) machine shops with a great rep, I would appreciate it. Its amazing how much road grime/crud gets on the block.

I should have steam cleaned the engine before, but to late know! At least I know it will be clean/spotless when I get done.

Has anyone ever sealed or enclosed the bottom of the motor area, like they do now with the rubber flaps and if not do you think there would be any adverse effects from doing it?

Got the motor apart and found stuck valve in the #1 left side cylinder and bent push rod. That is getting fixed! Anyone got a good tips on what to do to flush the cooling system and what to use that will break down all that stuff, from years of water from previous owner.

and do I have to put that smog crap back on, if so It will cost me a fortune in small rubber tubing...all of it is dried up, cracked and falling apart...can I just leave that stuff off and cap off all the fittings? Will the car run properly if I do or do I need to leave some? graemlins/shield.gif

A little help please......I got the motor apart found the problem and now have it 95% back together. Forgot that dang flapper think on the drivers side exhaust so I have to drop the other side of the Y of the exhaust to get it back on. The question is How do I figure out what wire goes were for the temp, chock, throttle return...thing...anyone know what goes were!!! LoL...

Also, I want to clean the engine and trans completely before I put the hood back on,,, what can I use to break down the almost 30 year grease, so I can spray it off...It took a couple of extra hours just to clean the intake manifold so I could see the paint, and numbers...with a scraper and brush and rag...now with it coming back together, I would like to know if there is a good cleaning/degreeser that would break this stuff down...

As far as cleaning is concerned, I would just stop by a local heavy truck or equipment shop and ask them for what ever heavy industrial degreaser they have. They usually have the most powerful (hard on paint) degreasers! It is always a good idea to scrape the heavy deposits off first regardless of what you use.:thumbsup:

HELP, HELP, HELP.....I have the motor back together, but now I have a bit of a wiring problem...the manual I have shows a variety of schematics, but none of them seem to have the same wire colors that I have for my 231 V6. If you have any info on what goes where it would help..

I have several wires left, short green, long green, long what looks like pink and med length red...Now I have left off the AC piece, but I have looked it over and don't see any connection points for wires, so I am at a bit of a stand still.

Randal, are you still out there if so I could use your help, I remember you have 231, if you go get back with me I need to ask you some question about the wiring under the hood....

Well, I finally found the wire that made it happen...just had to clean off the world of 30 years of road grime...to see the true colors....Car is running great, Saturday I will flush out the cooling system and the oil....just to make everything fresh.

I flushed the radiator, changed the oil, and have been driving the car for the past week...it runs great, but really seem bad on gas....even though I know that 20 bucks isn't what it used to be, I can watch the gauge drop just driving home from work...a whole 23 miles. I still want to rebuild the carb, maybe that will help, I don't know but I am hopeful.

Well I have been driving the car for a bit over a month and it runs well although the milage is terriable, and there is a rattle that comes from the right rear. Sometimes its when the car first starts and sometimes it when you take off and gets louder and then goes away. I have checked the exhaust and the shock I don't see anything, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I finally got a carb rebuild kit and will attempt that in a couple of weeks when I return from vacation. If you have and special tips on carb rebuilding I would appreciate it.

Hello, Hello well its been a couple months and the car is running fine. I just getting underway with starting to sand and prep the body so I can have it painted, but I have problem has come up. The brakes are starting to fade, when I am at a light the peddle is slowly sinks towards the floor. Now I know from the past that might be the master cylinder, but does anyone have a way to check and make sure its not something else.

By the way I have checked the fluid and its full...

sounds like you have the right idea:
a bad master cylinder will indeed provide a sinking pedal and you could have fluid in the vacuum hose as well.
a bad booster will generate a hard pedal.

look at the inside of your tires. are they streaked with a shiny substance? could be a bad wheel cylinder.

take a look at master power brakes web site. they have a terrific trouble shooting guide.

Ok, well I replaced the Master Cylinder, but I can not get the brakes to bleed out to get a solid pedel...I started and right rear, but I get a lite flow of brake fluid..

Is there a way to pressurize the master to get good flow from it? When I removed the lines from the side, and had the peddel pressed there was the front bowl had a decent flow, not vast but decent, and rear bowl line just kinda dribbled out...maybe I need to pre-something to the master cylinder so it puts out better pressure.

Help...help...help...

thanks, but I finally got it resolved.....removed the master cyl, and then submurged in brake fluid and then pumped air out, and reinstalled and blead the brakes everything is working great...tommorrow I attack the carb with a rebuild kit...maybe that will help out on the fuel mileage problem.

I have 2 new questions:

1st - my engine is running a bit after I shut it off...it doesn't happen all the time but it does happen...What is it and is there a way to stop it?

2nd - my drivers side door is rubbing against the top of the peg for the latch, is there a way to adjust the door, I have looked at the hinges and there are No bolts to loosen to move the door up a bit.

You probably are aware of this but I wasn't! REMEMBER the "odd-fire" years!

I bought a 76 Skylark for my son in 2004 for $900. Drove it home intending to have my mechanic tune it/diagnose any issues. He told me that the engine was missing on three of the cylinders and that the timing wasn't adjustable to correct the issue. Unfortunately I listened to him and authorized a trans/engine rebuild. 6 weeks go by and he finally says it's finished for 5500.00! Expecting a car that didn't stall and did idle correctly can you imagine my surprise when neither occurred. After researching the issue myself I found that until mid 77 the Buick v6 231 was "odd-fire". With this KEY piece of info I approached my mechanic who said "oh, well we didn't know that" and happily left me to go my own way. After installing the correct distributor and correcting the maladjusted NEW carb(the mech just broke the caps and cranked the carb adjustments to get it to run smooth) the car runs great.
Strangely, the vital information I needed I found on a Jeep site: http://home.off-road.com/~merls_garage/oddfire.html which does an excellent job explaining the quirks of the "odd" v-6.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Sorry to hear that you had such a terrible experience with less then knowledgable auto tech. Fortunately I was given the heads up on the Odd-fire/Even-Fire engines in my 77 Skylark from the parts people at Happs Auto Parts. They are the best I have ever been associated with.

I would like to put out a: If you got one in good working order I am deffently looking for a 2004R BOP transmission. I have tried several times on EBAY to purchase one but have been seriously out bid, (man I hate working on a tight budget).

IF ANYONE KNOW WERE I CAN GET A WORKING 2004R B.O.P. TRANSMISSION IT WOULD BE A GREAT HELP!!!

Well work on the car is progressing, found the problem with my fuel mileage....the carb was so worn out, rebuilt it and nothing helped. Finally replaced it. Know I can drive back and forth to work for a week on a tank full.

I got all the interior trim pieces out and will start on the new head liner in the next couple of weeks, but I don't know what to do about the plastic interior parts...I will figure something out.

Still searching for a 200R4 trans..maybe I will get lucking in the junk yard this weekend...Also will keep a look out for a left side door mirror and other interior parts.

The paint on this car is pretty bad,, weathered and dull. I got one of the Mothers Clay Bar kits from Kragen...and will give it a try to see if I can bring some of the shine back.

By the way, I bougth a set of under the dash gauges from ebay; You know: water, volts and oil pressure...I have never installed this before anything I should be aware off or look out for before I start? I also bought 4 stock buick mags from the 70's with center caps and had them but on, now the car looks completely different. Really looks great. I would like to take a photo and post it...could someone let me know how I can do that!

I haven't seen anyone post on here for sometime so I thought I would just drop a few lines to let you know how its going.

I just got a NOS 2 barrel Rochester for my 231, does anyone know what the settings should be for adjustments screws, I tried to rebuiled the carb I have but its so worn out that it only helped a bit...
Also I have some under dash gauges to install and I don't see anywhere to run the wires through the fire wall any suggestions, maybe I will have to drill a hole but I don't know where it would be best to do it. :confused:


Really could use help on this one.

I am going to try one more time, and then I will have to find a web site, or mechanic or someone that is willing to help with questions. I got a NOS 2brl Rochester, installed and then the engine ran really ruff.....I reset the adj. needles on the bottom front, and removed the EGR and cleaned it and the passage way on the intake and that really smoothed out the idel, but!

Now when I run the car it has a mild surge effect...I believe that it might be the EFE something switch thats in the front of the intake, it has 4 outlets that vacum hoses are run to the carb, and various other points on the engine...I will try replacing it this week end and while I am at it I will remove the Intake and make sure all the passage ways are clear...Also there is some type of solinoid that actuates when I start the car and it holds the throttle open, it never seems to release, I can take a screw driver and push the plunger back and then its fine!

Does anyone know what its called and how it should work? And is there a way to clean it maybe the plunger needs cleaned? Can it be remove and something else put in its place?

anytime is a good time for an engine rebuild, check for coolent for oil as well...the one thing you DONT want is a some blown water jackets...although that was my excuse to buy a 455 for my skylark!
with any over heating problem, check the hoses for cracks and the radiator for any "strawberrying"

-jeff-

i just knowticed this thread was longer then the first page...haha :clonk:

sorry guys i have a bit of catching up to do^^

-jeff-

Run a compression test to see if you scored any cylinders or took out a head gasket. You don't have to have water in the oil to have a gasket problem. If you have inconsistant readings you probably need internal engine repair that should be addressed by a competent repair shop. You could also try a cooling system pressure test or just inspecting the spark plugs if you don't have access to a compression tester.

It seems I have the same problem as Fueler 191 did. Didn't notice that this wasn't the first page.

You can get cam kits and performance cranks for the 231,I swaped a buick 350 for a 231.It was a drop in and I lost no gas mileage doing it, I did it in 8 hours from start to finish.Use the wiring harness from the 350 to the fire wall,the motor mounts are the same ,the tranny mount is the same,you'll need to disconect the catalitic convertor and the y pipe should bolt right into place to the exhaust pipe.I even used the quadra puke that was on it and to be honnest i got a bit better mileage.Just stay out of the gas a bit,it will be a whole difference in performance.

455, build one, spend the money. it'll be worth it.

Ladies and Gents,

A couple of weeks ago I have the sector gear break, the sector gear for those that don't know is the gear that is behind the ignition switch that moves the steering wheel lock.

I got the gear out and installed a new one, but I can seem to find the secret combination to get it so the key will turn to the lock postion. Also my 77 Skylark is an Auto on the floor, and I think because I can't turn the key to the lock position, know the floor shifter will not work correctly.

I can pull it back to put it into drive but when I try and put it into reverse or park, it does nothing. Fortunately, on the column when you move the shifter it would also move a part of the column that move the indicator to show you what gear you are in. Now I have been turning it manually to put the car in drive or reverse, but still no park.

Does anyone know how to get this thing installed so that I can put the key in the lock position and what I can look for to check why the shifter now doesn't work properly.

Thanks and I look forward to your expert help.

I have been down this road not to long ago,I'd do the buick 350.It's an easy swap-the Y-pipe will bolt right in place of the catalitic convertor-unplug the wiring harrness from the firewall it will seperate half goes to the engine the other to the lights and stuff. The motor mounts are the same ,the harness will plug right in and work just fine,the Ypipe is a perfect match to the exhaust.Now what I found out was if I kept out of the 4's in town then I had better gas milage and longer tire wear.You are very limited to what you can get for the 231,crank,headers and a overhaul kit is about all you'll find.Also make sure you have a good rearend in your car beause if you slam it to hard you'll blow em fast I went through 3.It took me 8 hrs. from start to finish and drive it away for the swap and was so glad I did.Enjoy it will be a very enjoyable ride when you're done with it.Also no spring swap of any kind needed for this either they are the same springs and yokes on the drive shaft.:beers:

I have just bought a 75 century 231 odd-fire and i have many questions of my own that nobody seems to have answers for. I'm looking for a 200r4 myself near chicago. My newest question: did the 231 really LOSE 50HP when it switched to even-fire? the books say 75-77 oddfire=150HP while the 78+ evenfire=105HP.... is this true? did the torque at least improve with the evenfire? when did GM begin using roller cams in the 231? I'm looking to eventually replace my motor/trans with an evenfire/200r4. but I'll need to do something with my 2.73 rear also......thanx, brad

Hey, bbatka-

I wouldn't put the overdrive tranny in with a very tall rearend ratio. Even the torquiest 455 wouldn't like cruising 65 with a 2.73 and lockup OD...

-Bob C.

thats why I mentioned I would have to do something with it...... what rear gears would would you recommend? i know that the 86/87 GN's had 3.42 rears, but i'm looking for a bit more mileage from this 4 door cruiser. according to my aftermarket tach, i'm 2500-2600rpm @ 70mph/ 2200-2300rpm @ 60mph/ and 1800-1900rpm @ 50mph. according to the calculations I did that puts my rear closer to 3.08:1. however it is SOOOO sluggish from a stop...(almost embarrassing) it kinda feels like she's sputtering just off idle trying to get rolling- but that may be the tendency/characteristics of the odd-fire engine.... I would much rather the steeper ratios in the chevy7004r, but i'm not gonna fool with an adapter plate. so i guess i'm gonna have to change the rear gears. looking for sugggestions. thanx brad

just redid the calculations with 6% slippage and that puts me right back at 2.73:1 rear gears.... oops, my bad. so what rpm should I be shooting for at 60 mph & 70 mph?????? thanx, brad

I say add a Turbo on the 3.8.

found a mc culloch sn-60 s/c. I'm not gonna fool with the exhaust plumbing for a turbo. the supercharger is self contained (lubed with trans fluid). i'm gonna have to do something about my rear gears...... too sluggish. thinking 3.23.......hmmmmmm

With the 200-4R, the 3.42 is a terrific rearend ratio IMO. In OD it gives effectively a 2.29 ratio for great gas mileage, but in first gear you have a 3:1 ratio for a quick takeoff.

-Bob C.

l am a V6 believer.l have done 3 now but have gone to the 4.1Buick V6.l have one in a 79 Pontiac LeMans and it dino'd at 268 HP at the rear wheels.Parts are definitely more expensive but with the weight savings and a 3400 stall the car boogies with the big boys...and thats with no turbo.

Smokey Yunick got 355HP from an odd fire 1977 Buick V6.

I have a 2.8 with Turbo 350 in 35 Ford and 3.35 rear. Used for 20 years. Want to put in 4.1 with 200R4. What problems. Stall speed on torque converter, 4th gear lock up? Are all of my 3.8 brackets, exhaust etc compatable with 4.1? Thanks

I had the same decission to make a year ago,I chose to go with the buick 350 once again.The swap is an easy one,you'll lose the catalitic convertor,the Y pipe bolts in place you'll use the same motor mounts and the tranny will bolt right to the buick 350.If you stay with the 2 barrel carb you will get better gas milage that the 231,If you unplug the harness from the fire wall with the 350 it'll plug right in place of the 231 and work fine for you.The one problem I had was that I kept wanting to get into it alot and blew the rearend for the 231 twice,it won't hold up to a hard driving.I did the entire swap in 8 hours in my driveway from parking it to backing it back out on the road.As far as the 231 hop up there is not a whole lot out there with out spending an arm and leg for it,but as far as the buick 350 goes there is alot more to be offered for it.Your local muffler shop can slap a dual exhaust on it if you choose to go that way fairly resonable.But just rememeber if you chose to get into it hard you could very well blow the 231 rear end, I went through 3 before I stopped racing it real hard.I did it in a 81 regal and was astonished with the inprovment with the gas mileage,I gained almost 10 miles to the gal. in town and 12 on the highway.

Many of the V6 cars came with 2.41 gears that was great for gas mileage, but lousy for performance off the line. I might suggest swapping out the rear end for a 3.08 or better rear axle, to improve acceleration. The small rear end can only be built up to 2.73, where as the larger crown gear rear ends can be built up into the 4's, and will launch you like you fired off a rocket on your butt. Somewhere in between you will find a happy medium that you can live with. I am going with 3.42 (or close to that) for my project 85 with a 350.

Good luck with the overheating problem, check your temperature sending unit for failure first before you spend a lot of money, they are easy to test, and cheap to replace.
:shifter: Time to put the hammer down.....

:confused: when you tear off the heads, down in the cyl. it will look like you took a rake to them. WHY don't you just turbo it. I have 79 and up parts. I also can tell you what you can do to bring it up to 87 SFI very cost effective. e-mail at mhevelone@yahoo.com or 435-637-6625 and let's talk about that update. Matt

Well gents, I appreciate all your info, but at the moment I have a new problem. The motor over heated, darn gauge didn't work.....well know when I start the engine, its running really rough. I would like to know your opinions of what is wrong and if it means taking the engine apart, then I guess now is a good time as any for the rebuild. Oh by the way I didn't notice any water in the oil, but I am not sure exactly what it would look like in the first place.

the buick 350 will drop right into place and you'll lose the catalityc convertor,the cost of rebuilding the 231 and get any decent power from it will be about the same price of finding a good buick 350-maybe a bit more.The chevy 350 will drop but you have to make motor mounts,the buick 350 uses the exact same motor mount.I would strongly suggesting that you also put a 3 core radiator in to be sufficent in the cooling dept.The turbo 250 and 350 tranny's that are behind the 231 will also bolt right up to the buick 350 and use the same starter.I kept my mileage and even got some power to play with when I was done with the swap,the engine wiring harness is the same for the 350 and 231 for that car.

I have a 77 Skylark also, I found a 455 at the local junk yard that was a complete pull and it was in a running driving car. I am going to just drop that in place of the old v6. There will no doubt be some bugs to work out but it seems to be the way to go for bang for the buck and since you have to do some work anyways might as well spend it on doing something with that "Cool" factor I figured. It is a 76 455 and were gonna make it look like it was stock in the Skylark with a/c and all the emissions right. Some food for thought.

Keep the V-6. Find a donor car, a rusted beat-up dilapidated GN, an 86 or 87. You can transfer all the bolt on parts with the harness and start out with about 240 HP. That will get you moving in the right direction. After this, there are many aftermarket add-ons and the sky is the limit. I have an 87' GN V-6 that has about 550 HP, I'm planning on taking it for a dyno pull to get the exact numbers but, from the way it pulls, it's there, this car pulls low 11's in the 1/4 and should be capable of high 10's once it is tunned properly. Keep the V-6. Goto gbodyparts.com, turbobuick.com, gnttype.org, rjcracing.com, hartlinepeformance.com. The cars on these sights are insanely fast and they're all V-6s.:bana:

The Even-fire GN 231's are completely different from the Odd-Fire 231(crank, heads, intake, ignition). The "bolt-on's" are not compatible at all with the '77 engine. The computer can not work with the odd fire sequencing. He could do a blow through carburetor to work with a turbo, but the Buick 350 would be a much simpler swap. For the other guy, I just dropped a Buick 455 with a TKO-600 into my '77 Skylark. Surprisingly to me there were no holes in the frame to allow me to bolt on 455 frame mounts. So I centered the engine and welding in the frame mounts ('70 455 A-body mounts, they're shorter than the bigger car's) and have no hood, oil pan, accessories clearance issues. The stance of the car even looks decent with the added weight and stock v-6 springs.

http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/Skylark_006b.JPG
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/Engine_and_Trans.JPG
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/Engine_bay.jpg
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/3-11-2007/Rallye_Cluster.jpg
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/3-11-2007/Trans_Tunnel_side.jpg
http://www.members.aol.com/thesilverbuick/Pictures/3-11-2007/Trans_Tunnel_top_3.jpg

:confused:the buick 350 will drop right into place and you'll lose the catalityc convertor,the cost of rebuilding the 231 and get any decent power from it will be about the same price of finding a good buick 350-maybe a bit more.The chevy 350 will drop but you have to make motor mounts,the buick 350 uses the exact same motor mount.I would strongly suggesting that you also put a 3 core radiator in to be sufficent in the cooling dept.The turbo 250 and 350 tranny's that are behind the 231 will also bolt right up to the buick 350 and use the same starter.I kept my mileage and even got some power to play with when I was done with the swap,the engine wiring harness is the same for the 350 and 231 for that car.

Got the 455 in the 77 Skylark dropped in, I will say this it is a sweet conversion. I have done a Vega with a 400 and even a smallblock to bigblock chevy in a Pickup was tougher than going from the v6 in the skylark to the 455. Even the exhaust bolted up(no s@#$%) It does hang a bit too low though. The only thing I cant manage is a fan shroud, Has anyone done this and come up with a factory looking fan shroud that would work or Im guessing most folks just do the electric fan thing???

My stock V-6 fan shroud worked perfectly with just the extension removed. I don't have a picture of it though, but mine worked. I used the stock 3-core A/C radiator and the V-6 fan and clutch. Where is your fan interfering with the shroud?

I have done this swap myself and I was glad I did,The buick 350 will drop right in place of the 231.You will need a 3 core radiator,and build the rearend a bit or even change gears in it(they blow up easily with the 350)It should bolt right to the same tranny,the 350 harness will also plug right in unless you want to take the time of switching the wires from one to the other.The air conditioner housing on the firewall will just squeeze by the head and valve cover,but changing the back plug on that side can get frustrating.The Y pipe will bolt up to the exhaust and you'll lose the catalitic convertor,my gas mileage picked up about 3.5 mpg.That is unless you keep in the carb.You will use the same motor mounts as the 231 and tranny mount,I did this swap in a 79 & 80 regal.It took me 8 hrs from start to finish,but I also had everything I needed to do it with when I started.You might also want to put heavy duty u joints in place of the stock ones the drive shaft swapped also.I did not use the stock fan I put a 6 blade electric in because of the space issue and gained a bit more horse and torque.Was a blast when I was done,have fun when it's done but becareful of the sideways walk you'll have from the torque

Would there someone in BUICKLAND be able to tell me how I can identify what year my 231 buick engine is. I have numbers off the block but that is kind of where it ends....Any help would be apprecicated. Cheers

Now is the time to decide whether you want power and performance or do you want stock, good gas mileage and economy. I'm thinking, you want to be young again and display your power but are afraid to do so because of what your wife might think. I say be yourself and to hell with what anybody thinks, Explore your dreams and make it happen. You deserve your passion, make it happen. You only live once. Put a Wildcat 425HP engine it. it will look like a sleeper, but will run way from anyone that opposes you.

I appreciate your suggestions, I in a way your right I don't want to go through the hassle of getting another motor, I like the V6 it just needs some umph, it has nothing off the line but on the freeway it runs like nobodies business. The motor has 90+ thousand miles and its doe for build, and I have looked on the web for parts but its been a struggle to find 231 specific parst. Maybe I will just have to go to my local shop and see if they can help me on getting some performance. I do like milage..and the way the price of gas is going...I want to keep it...thanks again.

I'm a bit old for the Dairy Queen scene and I am sure my wife would not like me checking out sceniory.
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Don:

If you haven't completed this project by now then:

If maintaining a stock look for you is not important, and you want power AND milage, go get a complete (With all the items necessary for Plug in and Run operation), Chevy, LS1, 6, or 2, and you can have the best of both worlds. They are getting very cheap on ebay or the wrecking yards, they are also aluminum (Light) at about 425 pounds.

It would beat just about anything else you could put in your car for the Money Spent vs. Horse Power and the Efficiency Gain for Milage.

I have a 600 + N/A LS3 that will get 20- 26 + MPG on the highway. (The spread is big because my Right Foot gets artificially heavy at times.):bgrin:

I would like to hear other thoughts on this option?

Thanks,

Ty